Hen suddenly very sick. Chalky white/yellow discharge, bad smelling vent. Other details provided, please help

[TropicalChickies]

Poor girl, but she sounds like she is still pushing to survive!

When the crop is full, even with air, it definitely fills the cavity where the heart beats and expands. It can definitely put strain the heart. I have had the best luck with Clortrimazole for yeast, 1 ml 3 times a day, you can use this with or without food. The Nystatin must be given without food, so Id use this first thing in the morning, after any vomiting, don't offer any food for about an hour. Nystatin works on contact only and much of the yeasts are in the crop lining. You want the drug to reach all parts of the crop for as long as possible without being absorbed by food.

Sounds like she is in good hands with you, I wish I had more ideas for you.

Thank you. We're all in the same boat when it comes to trying to save their lives -- doing whatever we can. I'll try the Clotrimazole. At this point, I don't think it can hurt.

 

[TwoCrows]

Thank you. We're all in the same boat when it comes to trying to save their lives -- doing whatever we can. I'll try the Clotrimazole. At this point, I don't think it can hurt.

Yes at this point, nothing can hurt. The Clotrimazole will definitely cut back on some of that yeast. Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers!

 

[azygous]

Flooding the crop with the Clotrimazole three times a day is better than Nystatin, which Ive never had much success with. But include her probiotic when she eats. Those good microbes will help fight part of the battle.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I've had pretty good results with Clotrimazole too.

I know you are doing everything you can for her, hang in there

 

[Perris]

One eye is clear and pretty bright, but she keeps the other one mostly closed.

birds can "modulate their deep sleep by opening one eye, limiting the slow-wave sleep to only one half of the brain while keeping the other half alert, perhaps to navigate while they sleep on the wing, and certainly to watch for predators." Ackerman The Genius of Birds 2016: 59.

 

[Perris]

More on that from Birkhead Bird Sense 2012: 30: this ability (to sleep with one eye open) was recognized as long ago as the 14th century...a bird sleeping with its right eye open is resting the right hemisphere of its brain (since info from the right eye is processed in the left hemisphere and vice versa)...(in a group of ducks snoozing) individuals sleeping in the centre of the group (where it is relatively safe) spent much less time with an eye open that those on the edge (where they are more vulnerable to predators), and ducks on the edge of the group were more likely to open the eye facing outwards from the group in the direction from which a predator might approach.

I don't know if this helps with interpreting Dusty's behaviour, but it beats speculation.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Thank you everyone. @TwoCrows, your reply made me realize something: Rusty won't vomit up a big liquidy mass because it's not there! Her crop is full of air, not liquid and food! Last week, when the infection was high, I think there was liquid in the crop top. But now it looks like liquids are moving down but this gassy air is getting stuck.

(In the other cases of sour crop I've dealt with, it was liquid in the crop, so this is new to me)

After I posted last night, Rusty was better, so I spent a few minutes gently massaging the crop in a different way. Usually with a sour crop I try to direct the contents of the crop toward the crop drain. But with Rusty, I did more of a "burping" motion --gently massaging upward towards her beak. I could actually hear the gas hissing out from her nostrils, and then she made a huge burp, opening her beak to push more gassy air out. It's when she does this that it's scary because gas is getting out, but she's not getting oxygen in.

I have Celiac's so before I figured out how to adjust my diet, I used to have horrible gas cramping and burping. Drinking a little water with raw cider vinegar would usually relieve the pressure. So I carefully syringed Rusty a dilute of ACV, and I could hear the gas in the crop breaking up. And her open eye brightened and her tail went up. So I think this gas is causing her pain and that's why she doesn't want to eat very much. Burping, if it keeps happening, hurts. And makes it hard to breathe.

This morning's update gives some creedence to my theory. First thing, I gave her a cc of Clotrimazole at 5:30am and a crop massage. An hour later, I gave her the antibiotics. Just now, I mixed up a little damp mash with probiotic. She was hungry and went for it.

She ate about a TBLSP of it, then she lifted her head to swallow, paused, and burped hugely. It looks like this, and she's definitely pushing out gassy air, it smells like bread baking. The smell is more sweet than sour.

She actually ate a little more after that. Now she's trying to digest. She also just made a reasonably ok poop, considering everything.

So I'm thinking:

The infection seems under control. No more discharge or acrid smell. No swelling in the abdomen or vent. I'm going to keep her on the amoxy/ceph though for 10 full days because I don't want it coming back like it did when I stopped after 5.

The sweet smell tells me that her whole system has become too alkaline, her Ph is too high. The ACV in water (I made it pretty strong 1/2 tsp in a cup of water), brought her immediate relief. That's good information. She clearly needs probiotics as @azygous recommends, but her system needs to be acidified because good bacteria can't live in an overly alkaline environment.

I've never had luck with Nystatin either. Right now, based on what I'm seeing here with Rusty, is to keep her on Clotrimazole 3x day. Help her burp. Acidify her system. Give probiotics.

And feed her things that don't produce gas. The mash I'm giving her is grower feed, but I know it's got soy and soy can make gas worse. I'm in a remote area in Ecuador, there's no designer soy free feed. Or baby food. (I'm thinking just mashed egg yolk might be the way to go.

Thanks so much for your encouragement and insight everyone. Realizing that her crop is filled with air and more "sweet" than sour, feels like a key to being able to help her better.

 

[TropicalChickies]

More on that from Birkhead Bird Sense 2012: 30: this ability (to sleep with one eye open) was recognized as long ago as the 14th century...a bird sleeping with its right eye open is resting the right hemisphere of its brain (since info from the right eye is processed in the left hemisphere and vice versa)...(in a group of ducks snoozing) individuals sleeping in the centre of the group (where it is relatively safe) spent much less time with an eye open that those on the edge (where they are more vulnerable to predators), and ducks on the edge of the group were more likely to open the eye facing outwards from the group in the direction from which a predator might approach.

I don't know if this helps with interpreting Dusty's behaviour, but it beats speculation.

Yes, thank you. It's clarifying and useful. It helps me to turn her the right way when I'm giving her medication so she can see what's going on and not resist so much.

Btw, Rusty (my red hen) is sick. Dusty is the black frizzle who healed up from the back injury/flesh wound nicely and now has a chick named Slash.

Dusty and Slash

 

[TwoCrows]

Thank you everyone. @TwoCrows, your reply made me realize something: Rusty won't vomit up a big liquidy mass because it's not there! Her crop is full of air, not liquid and food! Last week, when the infection was high, I think there was liquid in the crop top. But now it looks like liquids are moving down but this gassy air is getting stuck.

(In the other cases of sour crop I've dealt with, it was liquid in the crop, so this is new to me)

After I posted last night, Rusty was better, so I spent a few minutes gently massaging the crop in a different way. Usually with a sour crop I try to direct the contents of the crop toward the crop drain. But with Rusty, I did more of a "burping" motion --gently massaging upward towards her beak. I could actually hear the gas hissing out from her nostrils, and then she made a huge burp, opening her beak to push more gassy air out. It's when she does this that it's scary because gas is getting out, but she's not getting oxygen in.

I have Celiac's so before I figured out how to adjust my diet, I used to have horrible gas cramping and burping. Drinking a little water with raw cider vinegar would usually relieve the pressure. So I carefully syringed Rusty a dilute of ACV, and I could hear the gas in the crop breaking up. And her open eye brightened and her tail went up. So I think this gas is causing her pain and that's why she doesn't want to eat very much. Burping, if it keeps happening, hurts. And makes it hard to breathe.

This morning's update gives some creedence to my theory. First thing, I gave her a cc of Clotrimazole at 5:30am and a crop massage. An hour later, I gave her the antibiotics. Just now, I mixed up a little damp mash with probiotic. She was hungry and went for it.

View attachment 3698410
She ate about a TBLSP of it, then she lifted her head to swallow, paused, and burped hugely. It looks like this, and she's definitely pushing out gassy air, it smells like bread baking. The smell is more sweet than sour.

View attachment 3698411

She actually ate a little more after that. Now she's trying to digest. She also just made a reasonably ok poop, considering everything.

So I'm thinking:

The infection seems under control. No more discharge or acrid smell. No swelling in the abdomen or vent. I'm going to keep her on the amoxy/ceph though for 10 full days because I don't want it coming back like it did when I stopped after 5.

The sweet smell tells me that her whole system has become too alkaline, her Ph is too high. The ACV in water (I made it pretty strong 1/2 tsp in a cup of water), brought her immediate relief. That's good information. She clearly needs probiotics as @azygous recommends, but her system needs to be acidified because good bacteria can't live in an overly alkaline environment.

I've never had luck with Nystatin either. Right now, based on what I'm seeing here with Rusty, is to keep her on Clotrimazole 3x day. Help her burp. Acidify her system. Give probiotics.

And feed her things that don't produce gas. The mash I'm giving her is grower feed, but I know it's got soy and soy can make gas worse. I'm in a remote area in Ecuador, there's no designer soy free feed. Or baby food. (I'm thinking just mashed egg yolk might be the way to go.

Thanks so much for your encouragement and insight everyone. Realizing that her crop is filled with air and more "sweet" than sour, feels like a key to being able to help her better.

I should have mentioned that, sometimes it's necessary to burp them. I will gently squeeze from the bottom up, same action as milking a cow, and work the gas up and out. They definitely get instant relief. Sounds like she is doing better!!

 

[TwoCrows]

Yes, thank you. It's clarifying and useful. It helps me to turn her the right way when I'm giving her medication so she can see what's going on and not resist so much.

Btw, Rusty (my red hen) is sick. Dusty is the black frizzle who healed up from the back injury/flesh wound nicely and now has a chick named Slash.
View attachment 3698421
Dusty and Slash

Adorable!