Hen to Tom Ratio?

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

So there you go folks it's official now on the hen to tom ratio and for all you backyard breeders that raise 10,000 birds.

For the small flock breeder you just need one tom for 15 to 20 hens. What a great savings on feed, but I hate to say you are S.O.L. if something happens to your one tom.

Steve

 

[jtownchickens]

Quote:
Do you know who wrote the manual? Maybe you should look up the authors. By Frank R. Reese, Jr., Marjorie Bender, D. Phillip Sponenberg, Danny Williamson, and Jeannette Beranger. I would think even Steve would tell you they are the experts when it comes to turkeys.


As a profesional breeder myself, anything that D. Phillip Sponenberg writes I listen to. No better expert when it comes to breeding anything.

As a profesional breeder myself

that is what you wrote.

do you know who jeannette beranger is? she is the editor of backyard poultry magazine and just for you information doesn't even raise turkeys you should really do look at what you cut and paste​

 

[OmaBird]

Still posting under two names?

 

[thaiturkey]

What is there to row over? I too have read books that suggest ratios of 18 or 20 to 1. That's a hell of a lot of hens and not many stags. It's probably not even practical for small breeders to keep that many hens per stag. On the other hand, many experienced breeders and other authors suggest a ratio of around 5 to 1 and I shall throw a party when I achieve even that.

Surely, each breeder must find his own optimum that suits his practical experience, available land area, budget and hatching requirements. Like royal families, it's prudent to have an heir and a spare in case of premature death or reproductive incapacity.

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

Quote:
That's very true Thai. When you quote about large commercial turkey growers you have to figure in the profit margin. To make a profit you have to watch every penny. Other than the numbers of turkeys grown it's not a lot different than a turkey house, just a different variety.

Steve

 

[OmaBird]

Quote:
The manual that is been talked about does not say to limit your males. But when breeding a male, he can cover that many hens. You don't have multiple toms in the breeding pen. You know exactly who the parents are and mark all breeders and poults to know the pedegree. Its called the two pen method to avoid inbreeding and random breeding. Something we can all do.

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
The manual that is been talked about does not say to limit your males. But when breeding a male, he can cover that many hens. You don't have multiple toms in the breeding pen. You know exactly who the parents are and mark all breeders and poults to know the pedegree. Its called the two pen method to avoid inbreeding and random breeding. Something we can all do.

Looking again at post no.3 in this thread in which you quote from your 'manual', I would be interested to see more of the context from which you draw that information. For example, is the author suggesting optimum or maximum ratios for a commercial unit or a back yard hobbyor business? What research does he use to make his recommendations? Would you quote more extracts to amplify the advice that you pass on, please?

 

[OmaBird]

Quote:
The manual that is been talked about does not say to limit your males. But when breeding a male, he can cover that many hens. You don't have multiple toms in the breeding pen. You know exactly who the parents are and mark all breeders and poults to know the pedegree. Its called the two pen method to avoid inbreeding and random breeding. Something we can all do.

Looking again at post no.3 in this thread in which you quote from your 'manual', I would be interested to see more of the context from which you draw that information. For example, is the author suggesting optimum or maximum ratios for a commercial unit or a back yard hobbyor business? What research does he use to make his recommendations? Would you quote more extracts to amplify the advice that you pass on, please?

The ratio quote was taken from page 22 of the manual. The manual seem to me is writing for the first year turkey breeder.

JimsFarmStand had wrote this yesterday.

Selecting Your Best Turkeys for Breeding

http://albc-usa.org/EducationalResources/master_breeder_turkeys.html

ALBC recently completed Selecting Your Best Turkeys for Breeding, the second publication in a series of Master Breeder publications that document and codify breeding protocols using the methods of established master breeders and other library and historical resources. Just in time for fall, this publication provides the needed knowledgebase for those producers that want to take the next step from just growing out poults for the holidays to becoming successful conservation breeders. This is a great learning tool for producers with some experience with rare breeds who want to improve their breeding skills and the quality of their flocks. The materials are suited for beginning and intermediately skilled breeders.

ALBC worked with experienced turkey breeders Frank Reese and Danny Williamson to develop the guide. Phil Sponenberg provided genetic and conservation breeding background. Research was also conducted by ALBC programs staff.
ALBC is in the process of developing similar pieces for waterfowl, rabbits, and pigs.​

 

[thaiturkey]

Thank you. I think I have found the website and will enjoy reading the manual. I haven't found the advice in question yet.Ppage 22 is part of the section on pasturing.

I think that all advice needs to be considered in the context of one's own circumstances and needs. The 18/1 ratio can't work unless you have at least 20 birds. If you are breeding heritage birds then that will be 20 of the same breed. If you have five breeds, that's at least 100 birds with very few spare stags. Clearly, many small breeders will be forced to work to a different ratio.

We began this year with five poults of unknown gender from one source, a pair from another source and two mature hens from another. We plan to grow our own flock from these and how have our second batch of eggs on the way. If we are lucky enough to find some guaranteed heritage breed birds, we might have them and pen them away from the others. Nature doesn't seem to be favouring us with a ration better than 1/1 and most enquiries that we have are for hens so it will be a while before we achieve the present target of 5/1. I'm content with that at this stage and will be able to let some stags go from next year to adjust the ratio. I can't foresee a day when we shall achieve 20/1 even if we wanted to do it.

Most advice is good but I think that we must be flexible and also accept varying suggestions from those who have experience. There's probably no fixed ratio that's the only correct one in all circumstances.

 

[OmaBird]

Your in the wrong manual. Thats the one for pastured poultry. Try http://albc-usa.org/documents/MasterBreeder/turkeys_combined.pdf