Hen with swollen legs after death of another in flock

[Lyranonamous]

Thank you for sharing all of this information and to all those that have been contributing.

I may have missed it in a previous post. Where did you order your chicks from? The speckled Sussex post really caught my attention. We're in the process of elimination for ours.

I'm trying to look that up. It was a hatchery. Do you think that indicates irresponsible practices? My girls are 2.5 and just showing signs of a problem now. I'd like any opinions on this and also where to buy better chicks. I've had a hard time finding Sussex

 

[Lyranonamous]

Have you had a very stressful event recently that may have brought things to the surface?

The only thing I can think of is that an opossum got into the coop, didn't hurt anyone and my husband grabbed it. We have since trapped 5 more. There are foxes around but would any of that cause this virus to break out? The only other thing is Lizzie (the original chicken here) died Tues. Could this be pecking order stress?

 

[Notaneggspurt]

I'm trying to look that up. It was a hatchery. Do you think that indicates irresponsible practices? My girls are 2.5 and just showing signs of a problem now. I'd like any opinions on this and also where to buy better chicks. I've had a hard time finding Sussex

I don't think it indicates irresponsibility. Since most hatcheries source their eggs from multiple breeders it could be a line somewhere has developed a predisposition to certain illnesses or a over all weaker immune system. It could be one breeder had an infected lot that passed the illness through the egg. Since it can also be transmitted through mites that leaves another possibility.

Often times you hear common health issues blamed on hatchery stock. The biggest problem is the lack of information being shared. I imagine if everyone that bought chicks from a specific hatchery kept in touch for 5 years and shared the info on their flock it would be easier to narrow down. Since the only poultry issues that are tracked on a national level is salmonella and avian flu there's no large collection of data. It's rare for people to have access to an avian vet. Also rare for most to have necropsies performed. Those that do will sometimes share their results in forums like this. In my case having 4 out of 5 "lemons" does make me think it's specific to that breed from that hatch.

You sharing all of your findings has been a great help for me. It's one more thing for me to keep in mind when I have to send one of the girls in for necropsy. Thank you again for being so detailed and diligent on finding an answer.

 

[Kiki]

I believe there are a few active members that have dealt with this.
I may be wrong but I think it's @speckledhen and @azygous , maybe they can share something that will help to decide how to proceed.

 

[Eggcessive]

I am a bit skeptical about the vets thinking it was avian leukosis—osteopetrosis or marble bone disease. It is a pretty rare disease. Did they do any testing yet, or are they just going by the picture of the swollen ankles? I think they can only get the leukosis diagnosis with a necropsy on a dead bird, where they look for tumors and test them. Back in my posts, I think 11 and 12, I posted pictures of what osteopetrosis looked like in comparison to MS or gout. Osteopetrosis causes thick legs that are hard and marble-like. MS causes swelling in just the joints. The vet can draw blood from the chickens (or just one of them)and send it off to a poultry testing lab for PCR testing for mycoplasma synoviae or MS. It looks like they would do that first.

MS is a fairly common disease, and it is contagious to other flock members. I don’t think that all birds will have symptoms, though they might be carriers.

Here in post 4 are some pictures of osteopetrosis where you can see the whole leg is involved, while the feet and ankles are normal or small:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/large-deformed-legs.1018149/

 

[Cragg Klefor]

The only thing I can think of is that an opossum got into the coop, didn't hurt anyone and my husband grabbed it. We have since trapped 5 more. There are foxes around but would any of that cause this virus to break out? The only other thing is Lizzie (the original chicken here) died Tues. Could this be pecking order stress?

I'm sorry about the possible prognosis I know you are trying really hard for your girls, and it is so heart breaking to think there is nothing we can do for a particular case, especially if it involves more than one chicken!
As you said, hopefully, the vets are wrong. I'm sure with further testing you will know for sure. Please do keep updating with any new information! So much learning is through forums like this, and for a lot of us backyard chicken keepers that is the only thing we have.

I hope it turns out to be at least something treatable

 

[Lyranonamous]

I am a bit skeptical about the vets thinking it was avian leukosis—osteopetrosis or marble bone disease. It is a pretty rare disease. Did they do any testing yet, or are they just going by the picture of the swollen ankles? I think they can only get the leukosis diagnosis with a necropsy on a dead bird, where they look for tumors and test them. Back in my posts, I think 11 and 12, I posted pictures of what osteopetrosis looked like in comparison to MS or gout. Osteopetrosis causes thick legs that are hard and marble-like. MS causes swelling in just the joints. The vet can draw blood from the chickens (or just one of them)and send it off to a poultry testing lab for PCR testing for mycoplasma synoviae or MS. It looks like they would do that first.

MS is a fairly common disease, and it is contagious to other flock members. I don’t think that all birds will have symptoms, though they might be carriers.

Here in post 4 are some pictures of osteopetrosis where you can see the whole leg is involved, while the feet and ankles are normal or small:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/large-deformed-legs.1018149/

Thanks everyone for your support. It's been a tough week. I have learned more about chickens than I imagined.
I think I got the chicks from Agway. They were raised by my broody Jersey Giant. I don't know what I will do without her.
We live in Ithaca and we have an exotic animal vet at Briar Patch Vet who treats chickens, and thankfully she loves them. There is another vet quite close to our house (Adana Vet) who also treats chickens, and we live near Cornell which also treats chickens. We are lucky in this regard.
I too am skeptical about the diagnosis-mostly because if it's so rare, how likely can it be that two hens show symptoms within one day of each other. I'm not sure how hatcheries or Agway gets their chicks, but it doesn't seem likely they are from the same mother. They are very different colors and patterns if that means anything in SS.
For my girls the whole leg is involved -including under the leg feathers, and the feet look pretty normal. But I'm going to ask for a blood test anyway. That is an excellent suggestion. We will all learn something from this. Does anyone know the exact blood test (or panel) I should ask for?
I remember the photos that you posted, and I ruled out gout. I am going to post photos of the girls' legs today. Some of the swelling has gone down just a little.
I decided on a necropsy for Lizzie who I though had sour crop. It turns out she had chronic egg yolk coelomitis. I think this is one of the only ways we all can learn.

 

[Lyranonamous]

I just thought of something. I need to check the dates exactly but this is what I'm remembering.....The day before Lizzie died they got into some rigid foam insulation. There was a fox on my land so I did not put them out that day. I assume they got bored inside the coop and found it. I put it up on a shelf and the next day they got into it again, as I was heading to the vet. Is it possible the rigid foam is the problem with all 3 of them?

 

[Eggcessive]

Foam can cause crop impactions. One person recently treated a rooster who had ingested foam from insulation board in his garage. The rooster nearly died, but he treated with mineral oil and crop massage for several days.

I just talked to an avian pathologist at Ohio State Ag. Dept. about getting some PCR cultures on birds for various types of mycoplasma (MG, MS.) She said the cost of the test is small, but they have to be done with a necropsy. I know that is not the case in some other states as others have reported on getting them done. The best PCR test for MS is with blood, although they can do them on nasal swabs I believe. I am just trying to learn about these things.

Just let us know about what testing you are able to get, and any results.

 

[Kiki]

Thanks everyone for your support. It's been a tough week. I have learned more about chickens than I imagined.
I think I got the chicks from Agway. They were raised by my broody Jersey Giant. I don't know what I will do without her.
We live in Ithaca and we have an exotic animal vet at Briar Patch Vet who treats chickens, and thankfully she loves them. There is another vet quite close to our house (Adana Vet) who also treats chickens, and we live near Cornell which also treats chickens. We are lucky in this regard.
I too am skeptical about the diagnosis-mostly because if it's so rare, how likely can it be that two hens show symptoms within one day of each other. I'm not sure how hatcheries or Agway gets their chicks, but it doesn't seem likely they are from the same mother. They are very different colors and patterns if that means anything in SS.
For my girls the whole leg is involved -including under the leg feathers, and the feet look pretty normal. But I'm going to ask for a blood test anyway. That is an excellent suggestion. We will all learn something from this. Does anyone know the exact blood test (or panel) I should ask for?
I remember the photos that you posted, and I ruled out gout. I am going to post photos of the girls' legs today. Some of the swelling has gone down just a little.
I decided on a necropsy for Lizzie who I though had sour crop. It turns out she had chronic egg yolk coelomitis. I think this is one of the only ways we all can learn.

I would send birds and or samples straight to Cornell. I am not sure though if it is possible to do so, I'd have to check my notes, some state labs required they arrive through a vet.