hen with watery poop, thin shells, and thin, but otherwise healthy

[blondiebee181]

Update on my hen -

I have been feeding her scrambled eggs and yogurt mixed with feed.
She gets free choice of feed through the day. Although I dont think she eats much if any. I have seen her eat the shavings from the nestbox though. I offer the egg mix in the AM and PM.

She "spits" out the feed and just eats the egg but, only if the piece is small enough.

Sometimes she wont eat at all unless I break a raw egg into the bowl - then she eats the raw egg up. She doesnt even show enthusiasm for mealworms anymore.
Still drinks water

Still runny poop.

Seems to be getting slowly better (i say this because)...
... she used to only make soft brr sound without opening beak and barely audible - Now - starting to become louder
... used to stand huddled and feathers ruffled - Now - she preens and walks around more and sometimes tip-toes for the egg bowl
... seems to have gained an ounce?

BUT...
Now she has developed a high leg lift - only on the right side - not with every step all the time - seems to be worse when she has just eaten or in the morning.
very high (I will try to grab a vid tomorrow if possible). It is like when she goes to take a step - the leg just contracts tightly way up into the chest feathers and it seems she has to concentrate to put it down.

She still wants to go outside and when I let her out - she bites grass and scratches (although very weakly - she used to be the most enthusiastic of scratchers as stuff would fly!)

I tried to isolate her in the house in a large box but she wouldn't have any of it - she got all stressed out and kept "pecking" at the sides and trying to fly out and pacing.


They are all due for the 2nd (10th day) Valbazen dose tomorrow.
I am considering giving her a bantam dose because she is so thin!

- any experience anyone????

Sorry to hear about your hen....I was going to say worms for sure when I read your first post so I am glad that you wormed them....have you completely erradicated mites and worms? Cleaned housing and disinfected everything? Are any others sick? When they are vulnerable to mites or worms they can also pick up secondary infections so it is important that you have erradicated all parasites and the bumblefoot too. If she is still eating and drinking that is a good sign....the runs may still be a side effect of worming so it's hard to say on that....also I would be wary of feeding raw eggs...if you feed raw eggs it can promote egg eating....is there anything else she will eat? I would continue as many probiotics as I could and protein rich foods....even cooked chicken and eggs...be putting vitamin supplements in her water....if you can at all keep her isolated it would be for the best....risking your whole flock may not be worth her discomfort in solitary...if you keep her in the house with you she may be happier. I would really try to contact a vet in your area that may have experience with birds or poultry...your flock doesn' have a history of anything else? Coccidia or Mareks? Mareks is a viral disease that can cause nerve damage of legs, wings or neck and loss of appetite/weight loss. It is extremely contagious though which is why I say isolate...when infected with Mareks birds can also display a lot of normal behaviors too but it is deadly....

 

[DaniellePage]

I had a bird that did this leg lift on and off for years. She came to me with a huge bumblefoot. Even after the bumble was gone she still did the leg lift bit at times.

i could totally understand that. thing is - zeebras feet are clean - no injuries, toenails nice and trim
Just the reddened leggs (think it was mites) BUT, that is really clearing up with the oil treatment.
did a thourough exam and there are no bones out of place or swollen joints or anything externally that i can find.

 

[DaniellePage]

Sorry to hear about your hen....I was going to say worms for sure when I read your first post so I am glad that you wormed them....have you completely erradicated mites and worms? Cleaned housing and disinfected everything? Are any others sick? When they are vulnerable to mites or worms they can also pick up secondary infections so it is important that you have erradicated all parasites and the bumblefoot too. If she is still eating and drinking that is a good sign....the runs may still be a side effect of worming so it's hard to say on that....also I would be wary of feeding raw eggs...if you feed raw eggs it can promote egg eating....is there anything else she will eat? I would continue as many probiotics as I could and protein rich foods....even cooked chicken and eggs...be putting vitamin supplements in her water....if you can at all keep her isolated it would be for the best....risking your whole flock may not be worth her discomfort in solitary...if you keep her in the house with you she may be happier. I would really try to contact a vet in your area that may have experience with birds or poultry...your flock doesn' have a history of anything else? Coccidia or Mareks? Mareks is a viral disease that can cause nerve damage of legs, wings or neck and loss of appetite/weight loss. It is extremely contagious though which is why I say isolate...when infected with Mareks birds can also display a lot of normal behaviors too but it is deadly....

the severe decline and leg thing started after worming
2nd worming done and no more worms (that i can see) expelled - so they should be clear now especially after the follow up dose. Just before the worming treatment the coop was totally remodeled and treated - there were no bugs then (and i checked in EVERY CRACK! - part of the remodel was also sealing the cracks with silicone chalk just to help prevent that kind of issue. I even went out at dark to check the other night for the nocturnal ones and NOTHING - yesterday even checked the birds in detail - NOTHING.
Zeebras legs are clearing up niceley though.

Bumble foot - thought that since 2 other had it (they are all better now - long time consuming treatment

)
along with the bug checks yesterday - did a total palpitation, joint inspections, beaks etc.....
Her feet are nice - externally - no issues I can see other than the redness and swelling she had are almost gone now after the oil treatments.

maybee the legs getting red and itchy was from a vitamin deficiency?

been adding a little drench to the water (or food) and started using buttermilk in the eggs once i got it.

I decided to isolate her last night since her legs seemed to be getting worse.
edit: sorry - by her legs I dont mean the red itchy, I mean the lifting contraction thing.

The other 3 have no issues i can see (yet).
Flock has no history of serious illness (not even worms till now - and then only has only been the sick one - as far as I could tell from the poops)

The seller claimed they had been vaccinated from the hatchery.
But, I know sometimes that some birds can get a mis-dose.
I also know that due to genetics the vaccines are not always 100% and the animal still can develop symptoms or full blown illness.
I also know that viruses mutate and maybe there is a new strain developing?

my thoughts are possibly the above with Mereks, lymphoid leukosis, infectious bursal, encephilitis or just plain cancer if it is not just being weak from the worms - although...
when she expelled - it was not alot.

Another possibility is that she got the worms because of the weakened body being that the body could not expell naturally

I will only know for sure after a necropsy - wich i will be having done just in case.

we will see how isolation goes.

 

[blondiebee181]

Good luck, I truely hope she gets better.

 

[delisha]

Have you thought about adding ACV to the water? Feeding them Fermented feed? She might have something in the gland of her foot and you can't see it. High stepping is a sign of scaly leg mites or bumble foot. Try NuStock on her legs too. Neem oil on the roosts and perches.

 

[DaniellePage]

Have you thought about adding ACV to the water? Feeding them Fermented feed? She might have something in the gland of her foot and you can't see it. High stepping is a sign of scaly leg mites or bumble foot. Try NuStock on her legs too. Neem oil on the roosts and perches.

always have done AVC in water (organic with mother) except in our rare heat above 90f.
not tried fermented feed yet - might be the next step (if I can get it fermented in time)

Gland of foot ---- I will have to check that out - didnt know they have glands in the feet.

no bumble foot and have been treating for leg mites over the past week as a precaution (no harm in it)

she is isolated now

thanks for the extra info

 

[delisha]

you might want to soak feet in epsom salts a few times. That will help to draw any impurities out.

 

[iron chicken]

fingers crossed.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

about her hen, Zeebra

I saw your post in the 'are chickens pets' thread, and the mention of your troubles there. And, since, have been going through every detail you've posted, including the video, and researching in the hopes of helping.

Disclaimer: I am not a vet, nor will I be drawing upon direct experience in all situations. I both admire your intentions to 'do the right thing' by your bird, and respect your right to. And, my posts will often be longer than your video. I may not know the answers, but I will make every effort to steer you towards the most accurate informations I can find, which is what you (and her) need most.

Starting w/ what's just been done, and can be started immediately ...

If the active ingredient w/in the wormer used is Albendazole, then there is a study in which effecacies of various dosages were measured, which is why I would like to have you double-check the math of your dosage:
>>PECK HERE<< for Additional Information on the Treatment of Intestinal Worms

Next, you can, and you should, begin giving your entire flock Apple Cider Vinegar in their water (but not in galvanized metal or masonry containers), at an initial rate of 4 teaspoons to the gallon (the target pH is 5~6). The purpose of this IS NOT as a treatment of parasites, but so as to reduce the viscosity of mucus and other coatings w/in the mouth, throat and intestines of your flock, which aids in the removal of excess mucus, as a manner of increasing their uptake of nutrients/vitamins, and their medication(s). I just provided another an extremely detailed report on this aspect of the many benefits of using ACV, in the event any should suggest otherwise -- this can do absolutely no harm to your birds.

"Make sure she ain't got nothin' stuck in her crawl," as she just might.

Or, an infection of some form. Rather than throw a ton of suspicions as to what this might be, or whether her comb color, high-stepping on one side, and what appears to have been scaly leg mites are related to one common cause, I suggest pecking the link in my signature to closely review Poultry Disease Diagnosis Based On Symptoms. You might recognize things that you hadn't previously noticed, and this may help you put a name to her condition (which might prove critically important to your entire flock )-;~

 

[DaniellePage]

Thanks a bunch Cowcreekgeek!

That study was great! (I'm such a geek for scientific papers)

Good to know my dosages were slightly above the highest effectiveness mark for that study (at about 24mg/kg). I did use albendazole. And followed Dawg53's suggestion of a 10 day followup for eggs etc.
I dose the birds individually orally to be sure they are getting the meds as opposed to water mixture. They are tame and some actually like the taste of the meds.

go figure.


I am also a believer of the ACV in the water - been using as soon as they hit the coop floor. - of the same mind that it is a cheap, no-harm, thing to do.

Did palpitations and she seems to have nothing stuck on the out-take (as there is hardly anything left to palpitate on the poor emaciated thing).
Crop empties and fills (with water mainly 'cause she is not eating anything anymore).
There is only so much one can do without the luxuries of vet equipment and $$$$.

I have actually been through your signature links through your response to another members'post. - Very helpful by the way. Much easier than scouring Mercks Manual. Which is what i have been doing for the past few weeks.

I have a few suspicions of what it may be (mainly a a bunch of secondaries to a big one) But, we will only know for sure after the necropsy.

She has been reducing her intake of water and is refusing food more.

I am not one to force-feed (i know some out there do and I am not against it) but, it is where I draw the line for my own sanity sake.
If she is still refusing in the morning - I will be taking her in to the lab for a merciful end and necropsy.

PS Too bad I can't change the thread name and cross out "otherwise healthy".