Hens temporarily on chick feed?

[ChickenCanoe]

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I wasn't aware of this. All the starter feeds I have used here have been medicated. I assumed this was standard everywhere. Thanks for the clarification.

No problem. I've bought medicated feed once by mistake and another time on purpose.
That probably makes a several thousand pounds of non-medicated starter that I have fed.
I've only had two cases of coccidiosis over the years.

@Shadrach please continue to keep an eye out for flocks of Empordanesas and Penedesencas for me - especially black Penedesencas.

 

[Shadrach]

No problem. I've bought medicated feed once by mistake and another time on purpose.
That probably makes a several thousand pounds of non-medicated starter that I have fed.
I've only had two cases of coccidiosis over the years.

@Shadrach please continue to keep an eye out for flocks of Empordanesas and Penedesencas for me - especially black Penedesencas.

What do you want me to do if I see some, bag a couple and send them to you?
I plan to go to the Emporda rescue center before Chritmas. Volls alguns negra gallinas?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Preferably get me some contact information of farmers/breeders, especially if the eggs are particularly an intense reddish maroon.
I wouldn't want to burden you with sending them to me - that would be a miracle.

I'm sure eventually I'll have to make at least two trips to Catalonia. The breeders will have to be willing to have their flocks govt. vet tested and schedule saving eggs timed with subsequent trips.
Dr. Amadeu Fransech with all the contacts was going to facilitate our importation and then came his untimely death.

 

[lilmillefleur]

Their entire lives? Even when they were chicks or when they started laying?

I don't think so...We got them all as adults. Sorry for having to clarify

 

[Ridgerunner]

One of the important things about chick starter feed is it helps the chick to build an immunity to Coccidiosis. I have yet to read any reliable information on how long it take of eating starter feed to build sufficient immunity.

I think another clarification is needed on this. First, what is the medicine in your Medicated Feed? With a few exceptions (mostly feed meant for Broilers not chicks that will become laying flocks) the medicine here in the States is Amprolium. Amprolium is not an antibiotic, it it a thiamine inhibiter. It does not kill the the Coccidiosis bug, it inhibits its reproduction. It allows a few to reproduce but inhibits the mass reproduction that typically causes the problem. A few of those bugs in their system will allow them to develop an immunity to that specific strain of the protozoa, usually in two to three weeks. It's when the number of those bugs get out of control that coccidiosis causes problems. Those bugs thrive in wet soil or dirty water if they have manure in them. If you keep the water clean and their living area dry Coccidiosis is unlikely to develop.

The Amprolium-medicated feed by itself will not give them immunity. The protozoa has to be present before they can develop the immunity, and that immunity is only to the specific strain present. If your chicks have contact with the ground they will get that exposure. A broody hen will give them that exposure. But an all too common occurrence is that people keep their chicks in a sterile brooder where they are fed medicated feed but are never exposed to the Coccidiosis protozoa. When they leave the brooder and hit the ground they switch to a non-medicated feed just as the chicks are first being exposed to that bug. They have not developed any immunity because they have never been exposed. If conditions are wet they can easily come down with Coccidiosis.

Like Wyorp Rock, I feed my brooder-raised chicks dirt from the run where the adults are to introduce that bug, usually the second or third day they are in the brooder. Since I keep my brooder really dry and change out the water daily I feed them more dirt every three or four days so that bug is constantly present so they can develop that immunity. In addition to them developing the immunity they need before they hit the ground I figure I am giving them grit plus exposing them to any probiotics the adults may have.

The main point is that medicated feed does not give them any immunity. That bug has to be present first.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I think another clarification is needed on this. First, what is the medicine in your Medicated Feed? With a few exceptions (mostly feed meant for Broilers not chicks that will become laying flocks) the medicine here in the States is Amprolium. Amprolium is not an antibiotic, it it a thiamine inhibiter. It does not kill the the Coccidiosis bug, it inhibits its reproduction. It allows a few to reproduce but inhibits the mass reproduction that typically causes the problem. A few of those bugs in their system will allow them to develop an immunity to that specific strain of the protozoa, usually in two to three weeks. It's when the number of those bugs get out of control that coccidiosis causes problems. Those bugs thrive in wet soil or dirty water if they have manure in them. If you keep the water clean and their living area dry Coccidiosis is unlikely to develop.

The Amprolium-medicated feed by itself will not give them immunity. The protozoa has to be present before they can develop the immunity, and that immunity is only to the specific strain present. If your chicks have contact with the ground they will get that exposure. A broody hen will give them that exposure. But an all too common occurrence is that people keep their chicks in a sterile brooder where they are fed medicated feed but are never exposed to the Coccidiosis protozoa. When they leave the brooder and hit the ground they switch to a non-medicated feed just as the chicks are first being exposed to that bug. They have not developed any immunity because they have never been exposed. If conditions are wet they can easily come down with Coccidiosis.

Like Wyorp Rock, I feed my brooder-raised chicks dirt from the run where the adults are to introduce that bug, usually the second or third day they are in the brooder. Since I keep my brooder really dry and change out the water daily I feed them more dirt every three or four days so that bug is constantly present so they can develop that immunity. In addition to them developing the immunity they need before they hit the ground I figure I am giving them grit plus exposing them to any probiotics the adults may have.

The main point is that medicated feed does not give them any immunity. That bug has to be present first.

I don't normally feed medicated feed to my chicks- my very first chicks got it, but now I just use Flock Raiser and have Corid available if needed. I have always found it interesting on the Medicated Feed printed tags and online there is a "caution" Do not change the litter while giving this feed unless absolutely necessary. https://www.purinamills.com/chicken-feed/products/detail/purina-start-grow-amp-0125 I believe on the tag on the bag it explains it even more, it's been a while. The goal is to expose chicks to poop - whether we like it not, this is the main exposure besides soil. Let's be honest here, who hasn't seen a chick pick at what the chick in front of them has just freshly deposited onto the bedding. Keeping a tidy brooder is fine, but I agree, all too often it's kept "sterile" where bedding is changed daily (sometimes even more frequently) and chicks never really get exposure. I see this in the ER threads all the time - someone has an outbreak and the first thing written is "I kept the brooder really clean".

@Ridgerunner now people will think we have a bunch of dirty little, poop and dirt eating chicks running around

 

[Shadrach]

I think another clarification is needed on this. First, what is the medicine in your Medicated Feed? With a few exceptions (mostly feed meant for Broilers not chicks that will become laying flocks) the medicine here in the States is Amprolium. Amprolium is not an antibiotic, it it a thiamine inhibiter. It does not kill the the Coccidiosis bug, it inhibits its reproduction. It allows a few to reproduce but inhibits the mass reproduction that typically causes the problem. A few of those bugs in their system will allow them to develop an immunity to that specific strain of the protozoa, usually in two to three weeks. It's when the number of those bugs get out of control that coccidiosis causes problems. Those bugs thrive in wet soil or dirty water if they have manure in them. If you keep the water clean and their living area dry Coccidiosis is unlikely to develop.

The Amprolium-medicated feed by itself will not give them immunity. The protozoa has to be present before they can develop the immunity, and that immunity is only to the specific strain present. If your chicks have contact with the ground they will get that exposure. A broody hen will give them that exposure. But an all too common occurrence is that people keep their chicks in a sterile brooder where they are fed medicated feed but are never exposed to the Coccidiosis protozoa. When they leave the brooder and hit the ground they switch to a non-medicated feed just as the chicks are first being exposed to that bug. They have not developed any immunity because they have never been exposed. If conditions are wet they can easily come down with Coccidiosis.


Like Wyorp Rock, I feed my brooder-raised chicks dirt from the run where the adults are to introduce that bug, usually the second or third day they are in the brooder. Since I keep my brooder really dry and change out the water daily I feed them more dirt every three or four days so that bug is constantly present so they can develop that immunity. In addition to them developing the immunity they need before they hit the ground I figure I am giving them grit plus exposing them to any probiotics the adults may have.

The main point is that medicated feed does not give them any immunity. That bug has to be present first.

The chick starter feed I've been able to get here is indeed for broilers. This isn't the USA and things are rather different here. More recently the welfare of the chicken has become a topic that some are interested in and of course environmental matters in general. Of course, commerce is always delighted to develop new markets and a wider range of feeds are slowly becoming available.
The normal practice with chicks here is to keep them in large 'barns' usually with earth floors and of course the coccida protozoa is in the soil and consequently the chicks develop a resistance to the disease. Perhaps my choice of the word immunity was misleading (?).
Up here in the mountains, thanks to better access to more 'knowledgeable' information through the internet and other sources people who before let broody hens hatch and raise their chicks outside started using incubators and broody coops, in fact all those methods you can read about on this site. Unfortunately as you have pointed out when the chicks are released to the natural world they have no resistance to any of the local bugs, including coccidia and they died like flies. Here at Can P, even with reasonably well educated people, the knowledge that the chick need exposure to the coccidia in the soil for the medicated starter feed to work hadn't registered. When I came here 3 consecutive batches of incubator/broody coop raised chicks all died when left to free range.
I pleased to say the incubator went to the local tip, the dog crate used to house the chicks I cut up and used for coop windows and the 'ever so well educated people' responsible for I dare not even guess how many chicken deaths left me to it.

 

[Chickassan]

I DO have dirty little poop eating chicks! And they're all healthy as horses. They're like kids got to make them eat dirt so they won't be puny. I'm sure somewhere a neat freak just clutched their pearls into dust.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I believe the best way to raise healthy chickens is not to use medicines unless you have something specific to treat but to expose them to their environment and and let them develop a strong immune system. It's that simple.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I DO have dirty little poop eating chicks! And they're all healthy as horses. They're like kids got to make them eat dirt so they won't be puny. I'm sure somewhere a neat freak just clutched their pearls into dust.

LOL I do clean my runs, brooder and coop - I just want to clarify that

I need to do a "deep clean" to get ready for winter - I dread the whole thing. I have some cobwebs and oh my - the dust is something else. My chickens are the dustiest things on the planet. Probably due to most all of my runs are covered and most of the dirt is dry - when they dust bath there is a cloud that comes rising up in the backyard, it's something to see.