Heritage breed Cornish Chickens: why are they ignored and not widely bred

[JacinLarkwell]

I've never had an issue personally with IDEAL's website. Easy enough to use on my phone

 

[Tervuren]

Two Cornish at the Open Show at Western Idaho Fair. Not sure on their quality, but you’d be able to find who owns them by googling for the results and then contact them to see if you can buy eggs.

And FYI with breeding Cornish Cross, but you won’t get Cornish Cross by breeding them together. CX have grandparent lines, so they’re a hybrid. Some of the lines are dwarfs, so when you breed CX together you can get weird stuff.

 

[NewJourney]

Well, my five Cornish are 20 weeks old, and I still cannot tell which are female and which are male. I suspect the two slightly larger ones, that have a lot more red in them are the males, but there is NO distinguishable difference. None have crowed. None have attempted mating. I can't be sure if they or my OEGB have started laying eggs. I suspect the little eggs I'm seeing are from my single OEGB. smh

These birds are so frustrating. They are super flighty, nervous, neurotic. They have come down with a case of lice much worse than the rest of my flock. It's poor genetics I assume. They are hatchery quality after all.

None of them have any comb development yet. It's so strange. They are still tiny birds compared to the rest of the birds that were the same age and grew up with them.

I am keeping them for now. I am planning on experimenting with hybrid genetics this spring. By then I assume they will have started laying (some?) eggs.

Below is a comparison between a 24 wk (6 month) old White American Bresse (that has an unusually tiny comb and wattles for her age), one of the suspected male White Laced Red Cornish at 20 weeks old, and a 1.5 year old, badly molting Sapphire Gem hen.

Side note: That particular Bresse hen is a lovely calm, sweet, inquisitive girl. She is the ONLY ONE of my Bresse hens that pulls at my heart strings. She's a keeper. I named her Clara.

I can't get close to the Cornish because they scurry away like mice from a cat. They make these rediculous groaning noises when they run away like I'm hurting them just by being in their presence. It's so weird. It's like they are traumatized since hatching.

In the photo below we have (from the top left to the bottom right) my what I believe to be a bantam Polish (def. SL Polish), Sapphire Gem, BCMxDeathlayer rooster, American Bresse, likely Cornish cockerel, Buffy and Opie my two Buff Orpingtons.
I believe that Cornish is the same one in all these photos.

In the photo below there is a bad quality (and cropped to zoom one) photo taken 3 weeks ago (at 17 weeks old).

Black Copper Marans pullet, and two of my Cornish. I might see a difference in the comb development in the bottom one vs the one on the right. If my eyes don't deceive me that would indicate the bottom one, with more red in the feathering is indeed a male, and the more white laced one is female. But I cannot find good photos online about this particular color of Cornish to confirm what the males actually look like vs the females.

All I find are the stupid illustrations, which NEVER actually look like what the birds look like IRL.

Sorry if this was a bit rant-y. I'm frustrated with these birds. I would LOVE to have non-neurotic Cornish, but it's what I got. I just have to deal with it I guess.

Once I can identify if those two darker Cornish are actually males, I will set up breeding pens to get the birds used to each other and hopefully they will begin mating and by spring time I should be able to start hatching their eggs.

Yes, I am aware I will likely get some weird mixed breed birds since I don't have the proper parent birds for the CC lineage. I'm not necessarily looking for a CC type meat bird. I'd rather grow them out a bit longer and them be a bit more like a normal chicken. I was going to buy some Big Red Broilers from McMurray but this morning they decided to pull ALL AVAILABILITY from their site. I'm seeing similar sudden shortages and messages across several other hatchery sites for similar meat birds... So, here I am gonna work on making my own dang meat bird. It'll take years but, so I might as well start now.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Well, my five Cornish are 20 weeks old, and I still cannot tell which are female and which are male. I suspect the two slightly larger ones, that have a lot more red in them are the males, but there is NO distinguishable difference. None have crowed. None have attempted mating. I can't be sure if they or my OEGB have started laying eggs. I suspect the little eggs I'm seeing are from my single OEGB. smh

These birds are so frustrating. They are super flighty, nervous, neurotic. They have come down with a case of lice much worse than the rest of my flock. It's poor genetics I assume. They are hatchery quality after all.

None of them have any comb development yet. It's so strange. They are still tiny birds compared to the rest of the birds that were the same age and grew up with them.

I am keeping them for now. I am planning on experimenting with hybrid genetics this spring. By then I assume they will have started laying (some?) eggs.

Below is a comparison between a 24 wk (6 month) old White American Bresse (that has an unusually tiny comb and wattles for her age), one of the suspected male White Laced Red Cornish at 20 weeks old, and a 1.5 year old, badly molting Sapphire Gem hen.

Side note: That particular Bresse hen is a lovely calm, sweet, inquisitive girl. She is the ONLY ONE of my Bresse hens that pulls at my heart strings. She's a keeper. I named her Clara.

View attachment 3993322View attachment 3993323

I can't get close to the Cornish because they scurry away like mice from a cat. They make these rediculous groaning noises when they run away like I'm hurting them just by being in their presence. It's so weird. It's like they are traumatized since hatching.

In the photo below we have (from the top left to the bottom right) my what I believe to be a bantam Polish (def. SL Polish), Sapphire Gem, BCMxDeathlayer rooster, American Bresse, likely Cornish cockerel, Buffy and Opie my two Buff Orpingtons.
I believe that Cornish is the same one in all these photos.

View attachment 3993324

In the photo below there is a bad quality (and cropped to zoom one) photo taken 3 weeks ago (at 17 weeks old).

Black Copper Marans pullet, and two of my Cornish. I might see a difference in the comb development in the bottom one vs the one on the right. If my eyes don't deceive me that would indicate the bottom one, with more red in the feathering is indeed a male, and the more white laced one is female. But I cannot find good photos online about this particular color of Cornish to confirm what the males actually look like vs the females.

All I find are the stupid illustrations, which NEVER actually look like what the birds look like IRL.
View attachment 3993326


Sorry if this was a bit rant-y. I'm frustrated with these birds. I would LOVE to have non-neurotic Cornish, but it's what I got. I just have to deal with it I guess.

Once I can identify if those two darker Cornish are actually males, I will set up breeding pens to get the birds used to each other and hopefully they will begin mating and by spring time I should be able to start hatching their eggs.

Yes, I am aware I will likely get some weird mixed breed birds since I don't have the proper parent birds for the CC lineage. I'm not necessarily looking for a CC type meat bird. I'd rather grow them out a bit longer and them be a bit more like a normal chicken. I was going to buy some Big Red Broilers from McMurray but this morning they decided to pull ALL AVAILABILITY from their site. I'm seeing similar sudden shortages and messages across several other hatchery sites for similar meat birds... So, here I am gonna work on making my own dang meat bird. It'll take years but, so I might as well start now.

Those look like my bantam Cornish

 

[NewJourney]

Those look like my bantam Cornish

Oh. Wow. I need to contact McMurray. Thank you for telling me this. No freaking wonder they are so tiny!

McMurray Hatchery doesn't even have the bantam Cornish for sale. I'm not sure why I would have been sold bantams. I believe you, but I am upset that I cannot use them as I wanted to use them in my attempt at homegrown meat birds.

smh

 

[NatJ]

I cannot find good photos online about this particular color of Cornish to confirm what the males actually look like vs the females.

Feathersite has some photos of Cornish in various colors, including White Laced Red:
https://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGA/Cornish/BRKCornish.html

They are still tiny birds compared to the rest of the birds that were the same age and grew up with them.

Can you weigh some of the birds? I've found that Cornish look much smaller than other birds of the same weight, because of the round shape and the tight feathering. You might have to grab them at night if you can't get close during the day.

Well, my five Cornish are 20 weeks old, and I still cannot tell which are female and which are male. I suspect the two slightly larger ones, that have a lot more red in them are the males, but there is NO distinguishable difference. None have crowed. None have attempted mating. I can't be sure if they or my OEGB have started laying eggs. I suspect the little eggs I'm seeing are from my single OEGB. smh

None of them have any comb development yet. It's so strange.

I'm pretty sure the more-laced one in the picture is not a male. I'm not sure about the other ones. I would expect males to be noticeable by now, so maybe they are all females? That's not impossible for a group of five, but would be disappointing if you wanted a male for breeding.

Below is a comparison between a 24 wk (6 month) old White American Bresse (that has an unusually tiny comb and wattles for her age), one of the suspected male White Laced Red Cornish at 20 weeks old, and a 1.5 year old, badly molting Sapphire Gem hen.

Single combs generally are larger than pea combs, so I would expect even male Cornish to have combs that look small compared to the older females with single combs, but I would still expect to see red in the male combs by now.

Once I can identify if those two darker Cornish are actually males, I will set up breeding pens to get the birds used to each other and hopefully they will begin mating and by spring time I should be able to start hatching their eggs.

Maybe you could put the Cornish all in one pen together. That would let you get a closer look, more easily compare them with each other, and maybe take some better photos to show us as well. It would also answer the question of whether any are laying. Once you have your answers, you could let out the ones you don't want to breed, and put in the other birds you do want in the group.

 

[Amer]

Well, my five Cornish are 20 weeks old, and I still cannot tell which are female and which are male. I suspect the two slightly larger ones, that have a lot more red in them are the males, but there is NO distinguishable difference. None have crowed. None have attempted mating. I can't be sure if they or my OEGB have started laying eggs. I suspect the little eggs I'm seeing are from my single OEGB. smh

These birds are so frustrating. They are super flighty, nervous, neurotic. They have come down with a case of lice much worse than the rest of my flock. It's poor genetics I assume. They are hatchery quality after all.

None of them have any comb development yet. It's so strange. They are still tiny birds compared to the rest of the birds that were the same age and grew up with them.

I am keeping them for now. I am planning on experimenting with hybrid genetics this spring. By then I assume they will have started laying (some?) eggs.

Below is a comparison between a 24 wk (6 month) old White American Bresse (that has an unusually tiny comb and wattles for her age), one of the suspected male White Laced Red Cornish at 20 weeks old, and a 1.5 year old, badly molting Sapphire Gem hen.

Side note: That particular Bresse hen is a lovely calm, sweet, inquisitive girl. She is the ONLY ONE of my Bresse hens that pulls at my heart strings. She's a keeper. I named her Clara.

View attachment 3993322View attachment 3993323

I can't get close to the Cornish because they scurry away like mice from a cat. They make these rediculous groaning noises when they run away like I'm hurting them just by being in their presence. It's so weird. It's like they are traumatized since hatching.

In the photo below we have (from the top left to the bottom right) my what I believe to be a bantam Polish (def. SL Polish), Sapphire Gem, BCMxDeathlayer rooster, American Bresse, likely Cornish cockerel, Buffy and Opie my two Buff Orpingtons.
I believe that Cornish is the same one in all these photos.

View attachment 3993324

In the photo below there is a bad quality (and cropped to zoom one) photo taken 3 weeks ago (at 17 weeks old).

Black Copper Marans pullet, and two of my Cornish. I might see a difference in the comb development in the bottom one vs the one on the right. If my eyes don't deceive me that would indicate the bottom one, with more red in the feathering is indeed a male, and the more white laced one is female. But I cannot find good photos online about this particular color of Cornish to confirm what the males actually look like vs the females.

All I find are the stupid illustrations, which NEVER actually look like what the birds look like IRL.
View attachment 3993326


Sorry if this was a bit rant-y. I'm frustrated with these birds. I would LOVE to have non-neurotic Cornish, but it's what I got. I just have to deal with it I guess.

Once I can identify if those two darker Cornish are actually males, I will set up breeding pens to get the birds used to each other and hopefully they will begin mating and by spring time I should be able to start hatching their eggs.

Yes, I am aware I will likely get some weird mixed breed birds since I don't have the proper parent birds for the CC lineage. I'm not necessarily looking for a CC type meat bird. I'd rather grow them out a bit longer and them be a bit more like a normal chicken. I was going to buy some Big Red Broilers from McMurray but this morning they decided to pull ALL AVAILABILITY from their site. I'm seeing similar sudden shortages and messages across several other hatchery sites for similar meat birds... So, here I am gonna work on making my own dang meat bird. It'll take years but, so I might as well start now.

My Cornish LF was always lazy and she had a pendulous crop. Different personality. I do find some birds are more prone to parasites than others.
Use Elector PSP for the lice. It is the best and highest value product for external parasites I've found.
Sweet spinosyn.

 

[NewJourney]

Feathersite has some photos of Cornish in various colors, including White Laced Red:
https://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGA/Cornish/BRKCornish.html


Can you weigh some of the birds? I've found that Cornish look much smaller than other birds of the same weight, because of the round shape and the tight feathering. You might have to grab them at night if you can't get close during the day.





I'm pretty sure the more-laced one in the picture is not a male. I'm not sure about the other ones. I would expect males to be noticeable by now, so maybe they are all females? That's not impossible for a group of five, but would be disappointing if you wanted a male for breeding.


Single combs generally are larger than pea combs, so I would expect even male Cornish to have combs that look small compared to the older females with single combs, but I would still expect to see red in the male combs by now.


Maybe you could put the Cornish all in one pen together. That would let you get a closer look, more easily compare them with each other, and maybe take some better photos to show us as well. It would also answer the question of whether any are laying. Once you have your answers, you could let out the ones you don't want to breed, and put in the other birds you do want in the group.

I have seen that site and don't yet see much of a resemblance to my birds. Mine are too young to be compared to those adults. Yes I see the baby chicks on the very bottom, and yes, mine looked exactly like those.

You mention single combs... I wasn't aware they had single combs. I thought they had either a cushion or pea comb? I hadn't focused on the comb type when I was doing my research into the breed before purchasing them.

I haven't weighed them yet. In fact, the only birds of mine that I have ever weighed were post-dispatch, prior to processing (extra cockerels).

I will work on moving them into their own coop and pen soon. At that time I'll try to weigh them. I'm not quite sure how I'll do that, since they are so ridiculously nervous. There is no way to place them on a scale and them stand still.

If they are bantam, I will not be breeding them. I may keep one or two of them as cuts funny additions to my long-term flock, but my goal in having them was to be breeders for an experimental meat bird hatching program (for myself, not to sell to others).

When I get them separated I'll take photos and update this thread.

My Cornish LF was always lazy and she had a pendulous crop. Different personality. I do find some birds are more prone to parasites than others.
Use Elector PSP for the lice. It is the best and highest value product for external parasites I've found.
Sweet spinosyn.

I have used Elector PSP. I wanted to to ensure she was better treated since I may not have sprayed enough on her last time when we treated the whole flock. I believe the most flighty/neurotic one I have is a she, which is also the one that I treated again. In my head I keep referencing her as a she. I do think the darker ones (less laced?) that are also slightly bigger than the lighter ones are males, and the three lighter ones are probably females. But I rarely see them all together near each other.

 

[Rose the Legbar]

You mention single combs... I wasn't aware they had single combs. I thought they had either a cushion or pea comb

Cornish have (or should have in the US) pea combs.

All I find are the stupid illustrations, which NEVER actually look like what the birds look like IRL

Most if not all the illustrations online are of breeder quality stock that have specifically been bred for the heavy weight and body shape. Hatchery birds always look quite off when side by side with a standard bred and mature bird. Hatchery stock too could be a reason why they are flighty and insane as well as they were not bred for temperament in the slighest.

Oh. Wow. I need to contact McMurray. Thank you for telling me this. No freaking wonder they are so tiny!

They could be bantams but cornish are slow maturing, and when I say slow, I mean slow haha. It is quite hard to be able to tell size in just the photos but they look to be bigger than a full grown adult cornish bantam.

 

[NatJ]

I have seen that site and don't yet see much of a resemblance to my birds. Mine are too young to be compared to those adults. Yes I see the baby chicks on the very bottom, and yes, mine looked exactly like those.

I was especially noticing the one labelled:
"Kevin," a White Laced Red Cornish cockerel from McMurray Hatchery stock\
It looks like the third picture down the page.
I would guess him to be about the same age as yours, and he is definitely a male. Specific details: he has slender dangling saddle feathers on each side of his tail, and the feathers in his shoulder area are a darker red than the red in most of his other feathers.

Also, with yours being 20 weeks old, they should be showing some of the adult color patterns by now. So pictures of adults can be helpful, so you can see what they should be starting to resemble.

Most if not all the illustrations online are of breeder quality stock that have specifically been bred for the heavy weight and body shape. Hatchery birds always look quite off when side by side with a standard bred and mature bird.

Which is one reason I recommended feathersite: it has some of both types, including a White Laced Red cockerel that is identified as coming from McMurray Hatchery stock.

They could be bantams but cornish are slow maturing, and when I say slow, I mean slow haha. It is quite hard to be able to tell size in just the photos but they look to be bigger than a full grown adult cornish bantam.

I was thinking the same thing about the size, which is why I suggested weighing them as a way to check.

You mention single combs... I wasn't aware they had single combs. I thought they had either a cushion or pea comb? I hadn't focused on the comb type when I was doing my research into the breed before purchasing them.

Cornish have pea combs.

All or most of your other chickens have single combs. Definitely the Bresse and Sapphire Gems do.

I mentioned comb type because your idea of "small" and "large" combs is based on single combs (your other birds), and that makes it hard to see a "big" comb on a Cornish male. If you compare the Cornish with each other only, and not any other breed, it may be easier to see if some have big combs (males) or if all have the same size combs (all one sex, probably female).

I will work on moving them into their own coop and pen soon. At that time I'll try to weigh them. I'm not quite sure how I'll do that, since they are so ridiculously nervous. There is no way to place them on a scale and them stand still.

You can put a bucket & lid on the scale, zero the scale, then put the bird in the bucket and cover it with a lid. Or wrap the bird in a towel and lay it on the scale. Either put the towel on the scale first and zero, or weigh the towel and manually subtract it from the bird-in-towel weight.

If they are bantam, I will not be breeding them. I may keep one or two of them as cuts funny additions to my long-term flock, but my goal in having them was to be breeders for an experimental meat bird hatching program (for myself, not to sell to others).

If they are bantams, it might still be worth doing a few crosses with your other breeds to see how the offspring come out. You might gain more extra meat from the body shape than you lose in overall size, or you might not. You might get different size offspring with a Cornish mother vs. a Cornish father, because some genes that control size are sex-linked and some are not, and I don't know which may be involved here.

When I get them separated I'll take photos and update this thread.

I'm looking forward to that

I do think the darker ones (less laced?) that are also slightly bigger than the lighter ones are males, and the three lighter ones are probably females. But I rarely see them all together near each other.

You may be right. Seeing them all together will hopefully make it clearer.