Heritage breed Cornish Chickens: why are they ignored and not widely bred

[JacinLarkwell]

The ones in the photos you posted look like my females. Of course, not all males get that double breasted look, but they generally should still be very box looking.

 

[NewJourney]

I was especially noticing the one labelled:
"Kevin," a White Laced Red Cornish cockerel from McMurray Hatchery stock\
It looks like the third picture down the page.
I would guess him to be about the same age as yours, and he is definitely a male. Specific details: he has slender dangling saddle feathers on each side of his tail, and the feathers in his shoulder area are a darker red than the red in most of his other feathers.

Also, with yours being 20 weeks old, they should be showing some of the adult color patterns by now. So pictures of adults can be helpful, so you can see what they should be starting to resemble.


Which is one reason I recommended feathersite: it has some of both types, including a White Laced Red cockerel that is identified as coming from McMurray Hatchery stock.


I was thinking the same thing about the size, which is why I suggested weighing them as a way to check.


Cornish have pea combs.

All or most of your other chickens have single combs. Definitely the Bresse and Sapphire Gems do.

I mentioned comb type because your idea of "small" and "large" combs is based on single combs (your other birds), and that makes it hard to see a "big" comb on a Cornish male. If you compare the Cornish with each other only, and not any other breed, it may be easier to see if some have big combs (males) or if all have the same size combs (all one sex, probably female).


You can put a bucket & lid on the scale, zero the scale, then put the bird in the bucket and cover it with a lid. Or wrap the bird in a towel and lay it on the scale. Either put the towel on the scale first and zero, or weigh the towel and manually subtract it from the bird-in-towel weight.


If they are bantams, it might still be worth doing a few crosses with your other breeds to see how the offspring come out. You might gain more extra meat from the body shape than you lose in overall size, or you might not. You might get different size offspring with a Cornish mother vs. a Cornish father, because some genes that control size are sex-linked and some are not, and I don't know which may be involved here.


I'm looking forward to that


You may be right. Seeing them all together will hopefully make it clearer.

The bird labeled Kevin has some resemblance to the two I suspect are males. Disregarding his more mature comb and wattles, and the the flowy saddle and sickle feathers, his coloration is much more in line with my two darker red birds. His legs are also skinny like all of mine.

At this age they all have "game bird" legs. As someone who has never raised Game Birds (other than my one tiny OEGB) I notice the long skinny funny-looking legs (on a chicken) that the Game Birds have, in these Cornish. I know they are technically an "Indian Gamebird" renamed "Cornish".

Regarding the coloration of Kevin and mine, I see a resemblance, yes. Not quite the same though. The darker red, yes, and the more solid appearance versus the white lacing, yes. Though my two suspected males do have quite a bit of lacing still. Kevin does not.

I have an Easter Egger that has a Peacomb. She is about 9 months old now, I think. She's the only one I have that has a developed pea comb right now. I know the Brahmas and the Cornish will develop them.

Yes, my Bresse and Sapphire Gems have single combs. Here is one of my Bresse boys. He has what can be considered a "medium" single comb. I know single combs can grow much larger.

Thinking of the scales I have the only one I can use with a bucket and lid is my human scale. I'll have to bring that out to the chicken yard after I catch the Cornish and separate them into their own area. I'll just stand on it and hold a bird and see the difference to get a valid weight estimate since the scale is meant for much weight much heavier.

I am interested in seeing what would come of mixed breed birds with these Cornish. I am quite disappointed that they are so tiny at 20 weeks of age. I know they grow slowly, but this really makes me think they are bantam. And since I cannot find any good source of information on Cornish online like I can every other breed I've looked into, I don't even know if I can find proper weight estimates for LF vs Bantam.

My main issue with them being so small isn't them being small, it's money. We are very tight on our budget, so keeping more birds that are eating feed is hurting us financially. I closed down my egg selling business and sold off most of my layers because there just weren't enough sales of duck eggs. We had zero chicken eggs all year, until after I closed my business). It has been terribly rough for us on fixed incomes. I'm trying to find ways of limiting our expenditures and having more birds that aren't right for us is not helping that. They don't have any red in their faces, so at least right now they aren't even beginning to mature yet. By spring time they. may be breeding, but even then I shouldn't be using the Cornish's eggs to hatch because they are too small of eggs, even if they are fertilized by another of my roosters.

We are going to have a wind/dust storm Saturday through Sunday morning. I'll hold off on corralling them until after the storm. The coop I was going to put them into is at the rear of my main coop and faces south. I will need to close that coop off to block the wind coming through to the big coop since the wind will be coming from the South.

The daytime temps isn't a problem but nighttime temps are. We get down into the low 20s overnight, and with 30 mph+ wind that'll be awful for my flock. We have only what are known as "hoop coops" with tarps on them. They are terrible for protection from the wind. If I had the means I'd buy a solid shed for them and turn it into a good winter coop.

Thank you for taking the time to reply with more detailed information. Sometimes I don't quite get the nuance someone else is trying to provide.

 

[NewJourney]

The ones in the photos you posted look like my females. Of course, not all males get that double breasted look, but they generally should still be very box looking.

I will corral them up and separate them into another coop and pen later this weekend. I'll take more photos so that we can see them all next to each other.

My two suspected males (the darker, less laced ones) when standing near to the other three I have that are more laced look a tad taller and broader. That and the fact they are redder make me suspect they are males. I'll see if I can get photos today. I sure hope they aren't all females. If so, I will be removing some from my flock. I have a friend who is going to buy some of my chickens since all of hers are old and no longer laying. I could include some of those in with the ones I will sell her. It'll give her flock more variety, which she appreciates.

I'll try to get some photos today while I'm out egg-hunting. I free range in my back yard which is about a half acre during the day and most of my flock are new layers and they haven't figured out that the nesting boxes are for laying eggs. I do have fake eggs in them, but they still ignore them. So, I have to go hunting through my tumble weeds each day to find eggs. Quite a few of my slightly older layers (still under a year old) lay in reliable nests, thankfully.

We free range to help with feed cost. We're struggling financially.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I will corral them up and separate them into another coop and pen later this weekend. I'll take more photos so that we can see them all next to each other.

My two suspected males (the darker, less laced ones) when standing near to the other three I have that are more laced look a tad taller and broader. That and the fact they are redder make me suspect they are males. I'll see if I can get photos today. I sure hope they aren't all females. If so, I will be removing some from my flock. I have a friend who is going to buy some of my chickens since all of hers are old and no longer laying. I could include some of those in with the ones I will sell her. It'll give her flock more variety, which she appreciates.

I'll try to get some photos today while I'm out egg-hunting. I free range in my back yard which is about a half acre during the day and most of my flock are new layers and they haven't figured out that the nesting boxes are for laying eggs. I do have fake eggs in them, but they still ignore them. So, I have to go hunting through my tumble weeds each day to find eggs. Quite a few of my slightly older layers (still under a year old) lay in reliable nests, thankfully.

We free range to help with feed cost. We're struggling financially.

If you can round them up, you might be able to sell them. I know when I sold birds, they caught attention because they were something different

 

[Amer]

The bird labeled Kevin has some resemblance to the two I suspect are males. Disregarding his more mature comb and wattles, and the the flowy saddle and sickle feathers, his coloration is much more in line with my two darker red birds. His legs are also skinny like all of mine.

At this age they all have "game bird" legs. As someone who has never raised Game Birds (other than my one tiny OEGB) I notice the long skinny funny-looking legs (on a chicken) that the Game Birds have, in these Cornish. I know they are technically an "Indian Gamebird" renamed "Cornish".

Regarding the coloration of Kevin and mine, I see a resemblance, yes. Not quite the same though. The darker red, yes, and the more solid appearance versus the white lacing, yes. Though my two suspected males do have quite a bit of lacing still. Kevin does not.

I have an Easter Egger that has a Peacomb. She is about 9 months old now, I think. She's the only one I have that has a developed pea comb right now. I know the Brahmas and the Cornish will develop them.View attachment 3993614

Yes, my Bresse and Sapphire Gems have single combs. Here is one of my Bresse boys. He has what can be considered a "medium" single comb. I know single combs can grow much larger.
View attachment 3993616

Thinking of the scales I have the only one I can use with a bucket and lid is my human scale. I'll have to bring that out to the chicken yard after I catch the Cornish and separate them into their own area. I'll just stand on it and hold a bird and see the difference to get a valid weight estimate since the scale is meant for much weight much heavier.

I am interested in seeing what would come of mixed breed birds with these Cornish. I am quite disappointed that they are so tiny at 20 weeks of age. I know they grow slowly, but this really makes me think they are bantam. And since I cannot find any good source of information on Cornish online like I can every other breed I've looked into, I don't even know if I can find proper weight estimates for LF vs Bantam.

My main issue with them being so small isn't them being small, it's money. We are very tight on our budget, so keeping more birds that are eating feed is hurting us financially. I closed down my egg selling business and sold off most of my layers because there just weren't enough sales of duck eggs. We had zero chicken eggs all year, until after I closed my business). It has been terribly rough for us on fixed incomes. I'm trying to find ways of limiting our expenditures and having more birds that aren't right for us is not helping that. They don't have any red in their faces, so at least right now they aren't even beginning to mature yet. By spring time they. may be breeding, but even then I shouldn't be using the Cornish's eggs to hatch because they are too small of eggs, even if they are fertilized by another of my roosters.

We are going to have a wind/dust storm Saturday through Sunday morning. I'll hold off on corralling them until after the storm. The coop I was going to put them into is at the rear of my main coop and faces south. I will need to close that coop off to block the wind coming through to the big coop since the wind will be coming from the South.

The daytime temps isn't a problem but nighttime temps are. We get down into the low 20s overnight, and with 30 mph+ wind that'll be awful for my flock. We have only what are known as "hoop coops" with tarps on them. They are terrible for protection from the wind. If I had the means I'd buy a solid shed for them and turn it into a good winter coop.

Thank you for taking the time to reply with more detailed information. Sometimes I don't quite get the nuance someone else is trying to provide.

Your pea-combed bird has more of a "pingle" comb, meaning heterozygous for single comb (I'm trying to make it a thing). So it's a bit taller than the average pea comb.

 

[NewJourney]

Feeding time! Okay, friends. I have new photos to share. In this first photo I have most of my flock here. We have two Cornish in the mix (photos of the others coming next). Both Cornish are flanking a White American Bresse hen. Some White Rock females (same age as Cornish 20 weeks), Starlight Green Egger (20 wks), 1.5 yo badly molting Sapphire Gems, WABC cockerel (24 wks), and Hans my nearly a year old suspected BCMxDeathlayer cockerel/roo.

Here we are zoomed in on one of those Cornish and Hans's face. Ooh the Cornish is next to my (suspected bantam) White crested blue polish hen.

One of my dogs decided to photobomb with his tail, but that's still one of the two from the original photo above from a different, closer angle.

One of those two same Cornish next to my other same-sized Polish hen.

Below you see my black OEGB (about 6 months old?) next to a Cornish.

Hans and Cornish.

Here are the remaining birds that hang out at the coop/yard most of the day. This is a highly suspected cockerel, because of his very dark red (as compared to the others).

Photo taken from a little far away but cropped.

"Red", "less red", and "even less red" all together with my same-age Brahmas, a BCM, and a Prairie Bluebell.

Yes, I am aware the coop floor is terrible. We are working on cleaning it up. Mom had spinal fusion surgery, I fell and injured my back, dad has liver disease, we are all struggling. Thankfully the coops are very open and airy (in this instance) and they don't spend much time in here other than to sleep or run away from me because they are so nervous.

 

[NewJourney]

Your pea-combed bird has more of a "pingle" comb, meaning heterozygous for single comb (I'm trying to make it a thing). So it's a bit taller than the average pea comb.

Is this the bird you are talking about? My EE?

Edit to add, to not keep throwing notifications to the people watching this thread:
I found a great PDF describing more about the Indian Game, some discussion of bantam, etc. I am much more inclined to keep these birds even if they are bantam because they are so interesting to me now.

Here is the PDF. Full link: http://aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/18E06A07.pdf.

It appears this "white laced" variety is also called Jubilee. In my search for Jubilee Cornish I am finding a lot more information about this breed and color variety! I am now very interested in learning more - since there is actually information available online for these birds.

According to this article the bantam cock/rooster weighs between 1250 and 1350 grams, whereas the bantam hen weighs 1050 to 1150 grams.

Oh wow "Keep in mind, the jubilee colour is very sensitive to sunlight!". I live near Las Vegas, NV, near the hottest and sunniest place in North America (Death Valley). Now I understand why they hang out in the coop so much! Even very young they are staying under solid shelter. Okay, I'll create more areas of shade for them. I had taken down my shade cloths because we get a lot of high wind and the summer heat was over. We're now hitting low to mid 20s over night and 60-70s during the day. I'm so thankful to be out of the summer temps of 115-120 degrees. I hate it here.

 

[Amer]

Is this the bird you are talking about? My EE?
View attachment 3993697

Yes

 

[NewJourney]

Yes

My EE seems to have a normal pea comb. Why do you call it a "pingle" comb?

According to a Meyer Hatchery blog post (and many other resources online) "Pea combs start at the base of the beak and extend up toward the top of the chicken’s head. This comb-type sits low on the head and can be distinguished by its three points with the middle point being higher than the other two."

Ellie's comb matches this description. I am interested in learning more about why you want to create a new comb type combining the two (single and pea).

 

[Amer]

My EE seems to have a normal pea comb. Why do you call it a "pingle" comb?

According to a Meyer Hatchery blog post (and many other resources online) "Pea combs start at the base of the beak and extend up toward the top of the chicken’s head. This comb-type sits low on the head and can be distinguished by its three points with the middle point being higher than the other two."

Ellie's comb matches this description. I am interested in learning more about why you want to create a new comb type combining the two (single and pea).

The pea comb gene is represented by P/P in its homozygous form. It is often considered dominant, however, with a trained eye you can tell when it is heterozygous for single comb (P/p+), so it's more correct to consider it incompletely dominant. Therefore I propose the intermediate should be called the "pingle comb." It's less obvious in hens (other than being taller than a pea) but in roosters it is quite obvious and often the center row of peas is much higher than the others
Homozygous pea combs

Heterozygous

It can sometimes escape detection in females but I noticed your hen's comb is taller than usual.
It's common for Easter Eggers to only be heterozygous for pea comb.