Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[brahmabreeder]

Well right now I have three breeding pens set up but I'm kind of ignoring the buff pair and focusing on the two trios of light Brahmas. I want to hatch between 100-150 chicks before March since I'm starting show conditioning early to mid March. So if I can get these laying issues worked out soon I can easily make that goal. I guess you could say I'm breeding for overall width this year. Really made sure my males that I picked out were wide and believe me they are. Definitely need to watch head width that it doesn't get smaller because it's not the best at the moment but not bad. I want to keep a trio from this years crop just for showing. I hate that I have to break up my breeding pens so early just for the show in June when the next show after that isn't until August. I may or may not cull all of my buffs after this year depending on what I get to hatch out. I do know for sure that the buffs will kind of be my 'secret' project if I do keep them. I'm probably just going to breed them for the next five years or so before I show them again. Want to really get the kinks worked out first.

 

[BGMatt]

Breeding pens...... Set ups, hatch goals, top three thing you plan on putting breeding pressure on and selecting for in offspring this year?

With my Langshans for myself I'm hoping to hatch at least 100 Whites and Blacks, and shooting for 50-75 Blues (less breeders and blue genetics mean less chicks). My main points of emphasis will be growth rate, increased tightness of feather, and slightly increased leg length along with egg production capability. Overall they're in a pretty good spot, just some refining and blending of lines happening. I'm running three pens this year (Pen A- 3 Black Pullets and Black Hen, Pen B- 3 White Pullets and a White Hen, Pen C- 2 Blue Pullets and a Splash Pullet) and with two males (White Cock, Black Cockerel) rotating over them. Next year will be expanding to four pens and beginning a clan breeding system, with supplemental breedings to accommodate color short comings since with the Langshans and the way color genetics work with their three varieties I can breed them together with an emphasis on non-color issues and supplement if I end up short on one color or the other. Between expanding number of breeding pens and color ratios it is vital that in addition to normal keepers I produce two superior quality Blue males (it would be one Blue one Splash but I will not have any Splash this year due to matings) to head up breeding pens next year. Ideally I'd like to double my flock size from 15 to 30 (including back-up breeders and show birds) this year.

The Leghorns I will be running two breeding pens this year (Pen A- 3 pullets, and a cockerel. Pen B- 2 Pullets and a Cockerel), also expanding to four next year. My main points of breeding emphasis will be increased size, increased leg length, and slightly darker shade of buff while keeping even color. I'm hoping to hatch at least 100 Buff Leghorns for myself this year from my own stock, and maybe another 50 from a local breeder. In a perfect world my flock size would go from 7 to about 20 including breeding back-ups and show birds.

Spangled Old English Game Bantams, I've had to scale back expectations due to an unexpected loss (flooded brooder due to burst waterer) of a young pair I was counting on. I will be running 2 breeding pens (Pen A- 3 Pullets and a Cock, Pen B- 2 pullets and a Cockerel). I'm hoping to hatch about 50-75 birds for myself. As far as adherence to Standard goes this my best breed, my main points of emphasis are total elimination of shafting in females, better tipping on main tail feathers. Realistically I'm hoping to increase flock size including back-ups and show birds from 7 to about 15.

 

[Bluetick340]

What are the benefits to group mating vs individual mating like you say with your leghorns. Next year will when you go to four pens how will the mating be then? Father/daughter, mother/son.?

 

[Texasmja]

Breeding pens...... Set ups, hatch goals, top three thing you plan on putting breeding pressure on and selecting for in offspring this year?

Right now I am checking fertility on my males, I have (six) 5Wx10Lx6H breeding pens, and (four) 10Wx10Lx6H breeding pens.

I plan on doing some one on one breeding this year with my Columbains and Black Wyandottes. I am going to try and set some genes and see what I can improve in the offspring. These two varieties are a side project that have years to go before they are ready. I am just going to try and work on one or two Wyandotte traits a year.

I am going to continue working on my GLW's, I have a few nice cockerels I am growing out and am going to take a couple of my SLW hens and put them under a Glw Cock I have and keep the daughters as they will be GLW and bring them back the next season to their sire. I hope to have some to show in 2 more years.

The SLW are already excellent quality and came to me that way thanks to a wonderful man who sold me chicks. I have two different lines that I am raising. Fertility in the SLW seems to be an issue for many people raising them, so that will always be kept in mind and culled for to try and improve.

 

[BGMatt]

What are the benefits to group mating vs individual mating like you say with your leghorns. Next year will when you go to four pens how will the mating be then? Father/daughter, mother/son.?

The reason I'm going to clan style breeding set ups (I've used them before), is I don't really have a desire to have to bring in outside stock, and in some cases it's hard to find (like with my Leghorns and Langshans). The advantage is you can go almost indefinitely without having to bring in new blood. It also really tightens up the line, after a few years all the birds start looking like clones of each other, at that point can usually get away with hatching less, which means either more to sell, or more time/space for other projects.

Edit: One downside to this method...you can NEVER double up faults. I'll use Leghorn as an example, if I have a male with too long of a back, he must NEVER be bred to a female with too long a back. When using a system like this if you double up faults you will have an almost impossible time breeding away from them once they get set. If you end up with this happening, you need to either switch to a back-up breeding bird that doesn't create this issue, or not breeding from that pen that year.

To break out to 4 pens next year I will do something like this (2014 Pen C is the eggs I'm buying from local breeder, keep in mind all chicks hatched are marked with pen they were born in):

2014:
Pen A - Pen A Cockerel, Pen A Pullets
Pen B - Pen B Cockerel, Pen B Pullets
Pen C - Pen C Cockerels, Pen C Pullets

2015:
Pen A - Pen C Cockerel (From 2016 on labeled as Pen D Cock/Cockerel), Pen A Hens/Pullets
Pen B - Pen A Cock/Cockerel, Pen B Hens/Pullets
Pen C - Pen B Cock/Cockerel, Pen C Pullets
Pen D - Pen C Cockerel, Pen C Hens (From 2016 on called Pen D Hens/Pullets)

Then every year will be rotating males one pen down the line. Every year I adjust the number of females in the pens based on my need, and expected demand to sell as well. For instance if I don't plan on hatching quite as many birds in 2015 I might not need the Pen A Hens, but I won't get rid of them, and may use them in 2016 if needed. Nine times out of ten, once a bird makes it through all the cuts and culling process to actually make it in the breeding pen that bird is going to retire and stay on the place til it dies of old age, being shown and/or providing eggs as long as it lives. This is opposed to show birds that make all the cuts except the breeding selection cuts, they'll be shown and then sold off.

 

[RiddleMe]

Matt - Thank you for outlining your plans, it's good to see your intended hatch numbers as well as goals for potential keepers, just as a reminder of what is required to make improvements, even on something like your OEGBs which are in that fine tuning stage.

I am one of those lurker-ish folks, I am so close to taking the plunge on my APA recognized breed. I currently have orloffs, and am enjoying them, but realizing that without an SOP to guide me, it's mostly my personal preference wrt building the barn. Plus, I really don't want to worry about the details of the color pattern. So... after a couple years consideration, looking at many many different breeds, I have decided to try a solid white variety, and have narrowed it down to the Wyandotte or Chantecler. I'd prefer the Chantecler as I prefer the tighter feathering, just on the hunt for some decent ones to purchase.

 

[unkadan]

Matt - Thank you for outlining your plans, it's good to see your intended hatch numbers as well as goals for potential keepers, just as a reminder of what is required to make improvements, even on something like your OEGBs which are in that fine tuning stage.

I am one of those lurker-ish folks, I am so close to taking the plunge on my APA recognized breed. I currently have orloffs, and am enjoying them, but realizing that without an SOP to guide me, it's mostly my personal preference wrt building the barn. Plus, I really don't want to worry about the details of the color pattern. So... after a couple years consideration, looking at many many different breeds, I have decided to try a solid white variety, and have narrowed it down to the Wyandotte or Chantecler. I'd prefer the Chantecler as I prefer the tighter feathering, just on the hunt for some decent ones to purchase.

http://chanteclerfanciersinternational.org/

these birds are hard to find, but they are available, check the breeders list, joining the club opens some doors and sources

Bob Renolette ships chicks and he has some great stock out of South Dakota

 

[ronniewayne]

I am setting up 5 breeding pens this year . I hatched 150+ chicks last year from 2 cockerels and 4 pullets and plan to cull to 16 pullets and 4 cockerels . with the 4 original hens and 1 remaining cock I lost the other one from last year. my cockerels are 8-10 months now and the oldest are 1/2 to 1 lbs heavier than the cock a little taller and longer . in part because the originals were from Ron Fogel in ar and I moved them as chicks or I hatched some of his eggs to tx about 200 miles . I think the next generation benefits from that change because the first generation has to do more adapting . I hope to hatch 300+ chicks this year my culling emphasis will be as last year I take the top half, fastest to feather, pick from them, then I look at tail angles, then the widest birds flat back with width all the way to the tail , then brick shape they must have the extended keel and depth of body , then head shape , last I will look closer at color next year as I think mine may be getting to dark the males this looks great but the females I am seeing more and more black in the hackle and some black or beetle green on the wings the red is rich though . this is ambitious but I was blessed to get a start of nice birds and my fear would be to let them go backwards instead of improving towards the standard.

 

[BGMatt]

Matt - Thank you for outlining your plans, it's good to see your intended hatch numbers as well as goals for potential keepers, just as a reminder of what is required to make improvements, even on something like your OEGBs which are in that fine tuning stage.

I am one of those lurker-ish folks, I am so close to taking the plunge on my APA recognized breed. I currently have orloffs, and am enjoying them, but realizing that without an SOP to guide me, it's mostly my personal preference wrt building the barn. Plus, I really don't want to worry about the details of the color pattern. So... after a couple years consideration, looking at many many different breeds, I have decided to try a solid white variety, and have narrowed it down to the Wyandotte or Chantecler. I'd prefer the Chantecler as I prefer the tighter feathering, just on the hunt for some decent ones to purchase.

Bruce Bickle has some very nice Chantecler. He is in Canada, but does usually come into the states at least a couple times a year for shows here in the Northwest (since I see you're in OR), so you could probably have him bring birds then. Next one is probably the Washington Feather Fanciers show in Monroe, WA in spring.

 

[RiddleMe]

Thanks everyone for the link to the CFI website and the recommendations, I had actually found the breeders list and sent out some emails. Given the holidays I figured it might take folks time to get back to me. But Mr Bickle and Mr Rennolet are two of the folks I emailed.

Edited to add - I actually just found the list of CFI district directors and emailed "mine", so I may be on my way to finding something somewhat local as well.