Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[thedragonlady]

When reading the question asked about egg laying in Heritage breeds, I was reminded about a contest I had read about in the APA book I have for the LF Wyandotte.

As the story goes, during a very cold winter in 1899 my friend was getting a wonderful egg yield. I supposed that he had a comfortable pen and was giving them the best of care. One day I went to see his birds and was amazed to find them housed in nothing more than an open shed and getting hard grain twice a day. This setting me thinking because he was getting far better results than I was getting from my Rock pullets, with double the care. The next year I purchased several settings of White Wyandotte eggs and hatched chicks in the latter part of May and middle of June. I had 20 Wyandotte pullets and 40 Rock pullets hatched in May. Both lots had equal care but the Wyandotte pullets out laid the Rock pullets two to one. The Wyandotte excels as a winter layer and the Leghorn as a summer layer.

A five year egg laying contest was done at MO. State Poultry Experiment Station:
1st place - White Wyandotte
2nd place - SLW
3rd place - SC White Leghorn
4th place - SC Reds
5th place - Black Minorcas
6th place - RC Reds
7th place - Anconas
8th place - Barred Rock
9th place - White Orpington

My personal experience is that all of my LF Wyandottes are great layers all year round. I am always reading in the winter that no one is getting eggs without supplementing extra light, no extra light here and all are laying every day here. In the Summer people complain their birds are not laying....still laying here, they only slow down a bit if going through a hard molt, but most all of them keep laying.

I can vouch for the egg laying work ethic of SL Wyandottes;. The birds I had from Herb Holtz stock churned out eggs , came into lay at 5-6 months, and made large birds with good carcasses.

I have been pleasantly surprised at how my English x American Buff Orps have performed. They come into lay at almost exactly 5 months, and stay at it, most times laying right through their molt.. Excess cockerels dress out at 5-5 1/2 lbs at 5-6 months also, with plenty of breast meat. Hens weigh out at 9-10 lbs at a year, and are truly a roasting bird, fit to feed a family Sunday dinner.

I've found that to get this growth and performance it is important to feed the growing chicks very well, and be religious about treating for parasites in my climate, but it is so worth it in the long run.Once laying, the birds are easy keepers, who spend a lot of time ranging.

 

[Fred's Hens]

I dream of a chicken that looks like the breed is supposed to look, like many that I've seen on this thread...simply poetry to see...but is still a working, real chicken that performs top rate for laying, meaty carcass, fertility, hardiness, thriftiness, broodiness enough to reproduce its own kind and can rustle a lot of its own grub out on forage and have the survival instincts to do it.

I want a bird that is an excellent representation of the breed but is worthy of feed, not just for beauty and conformation, but for the practical purpose of eggs and meaty carcasses. A true dual purpose breed...with emphasis on the word "purpose". I want that 250-300 eggs per year type of performance in a heritage breed bird...or is that the Holy Grail and cannot ever be obtained through natural means?

I guess what I'm asking is if any of the heritage line breeders have managed to produce a bird like that, consistently, in their chosen breeds? If it can be done once, can it be done again?

If it can't be done at all, then it's a pipe dream and old hatchery mutts that produce well but are just mutts may be the only recourse. She won't be the prettiest gal at the ball but she gets the job done.

Can a person have stellar performance in a heritage breed chicken?

Bee, you and I have chatted here for a long time. You know my thinking as well as most folks, I hazard saying. We've been working with (H) Barred Rocks now for over three years. We started off a base of GSBR (pretty fair layers in their own right) and have kept that line pure, but I've been working really hard at a cross with a fork of the Maine line. What I am seeing is incredible type. SOP, near take to the show beauty. Do I enjoy that? Sure. But, and this is much more important to me personally, is that the meat creation is simply outstanding. There was a carcass shown earlier by UphillJill. Perhaps most important to me is intelligence, temperament that is calm, business like and eager to forage, but also willing to be confined during our horrid winters. That Big Grey Book lays beside my easy chair and yes, it gets studied regularly.

I absolutely demand quicker maturity, both in body size and egg laying starts. I want a quality, large egg and I want to see a consistent 4-5 eggs per week. Frankly, the pullets are knocking out 5 eggs a week. I am pleased as pleased can be. I feel the strain needs another year or two of work for feathering precision, as that is important to me, but I won't sacrifice the virtues of this venerable breed, America's most popular on the farms and homesteads of the century past.

It's all what you breed for, seems to me. Within the century old DNA of these Rocks is all the makings of the breed as the birds once were. To breed for 10 years, blinded by the sheer desire for egg production would make these birds into something they never were intended to be. But, to breed for slower, slower, and slower maturity because one is enthralled by the beauty alone that such slowness often creates but all else (maturation, egg laying and vigor) is sacrificed on that altar is a gross injustice to the breed and nonsensical vanity in my book.

 

[uphilljill]

I originally posted the pic of a BR meat carcass on the Plymouth Rock Breeders thread, but here it is again. A 7.5 mo old HBR cockerel, 6lbs 7oz:



Yes, I processed my GNHs much younger (around 20-22 weeks) but they were all under 5lbs. If I have to wait a bit longer for the HBR cockerels to grow out, at least I'm getting a bigger meal.

Worth noting that this guy was our slowest growing cull. Our keeper cockerel matured a bit faster, is a bit fuller in the chest and straighter in the keel.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Our keeper cockerel matured a bit faster, is a bit fuller in the chest and straighter in the keel.

As he should be.

Good for you, Jill.

 

[brahmabreeder]

Regarding Brahmas, is it possible to have a nice heavy 10lb. hen lay four or five eggs a week? From what I have noticed with my Brahmas is that the lighter weights lay better than the heavy weights. I was just figuring while everyone was talking about this I could ask.

 

[hellbender]

I originally posted the pic of a BR meat carcass on the Plymouth Rock Breeders thread, but here it is again. A 7.5 mo old HBR cockerel, 6lbs 7oz:



Yes, I processed my GNHs much younger (around 20-22 weeks) but they were all under 5lbs. If I have to wait a bit longer for the HBR cockerels to grow out, at least I'm getting a bigger meal.

Worth noting that this guy was our slowest growing cull. Our keeper cockerel matured a bit faster, is a bit fuller in the chest and straighter in the keel.

Looks like a pretty nice carcass....I'd surely give it a go!

 

[hellbender]

Regarding Brahmas, is it possible to have a nice heavy 10lb. hen lay four or five eggs a week? From what I have noticed with my Brahmas is that the lighter weights lay better than the heavy weights. I was just figuring while everyone was talking about this I could ask.

I don't know anything about Brahmas but I have Australorp and NN hens that are 9.5 to 10 pounds and they lay 5 to 6 eggs per week. These birds have been production-bred for three generations (human generations) but I don't see why the Brahmas couldn't be selectively bred and reach that goal long before you're 21 years old if you have the room and time to do it.

I have honestly never heard of anyone attempting to push this breed's productivity....If you try...Good luck!

Edited to say: You may have to give up some SOP qualities.

 

[BGMatt]

Regarding Brahmas, is it possible to have a nice heavy 10lb. hen lay four or five eggs a week? From what I have noticed with my Brahmas is that the lighter weights lay better than the heavy weights. I was just figuring while everyone was talking about this I could ask.

Use Hogan's method to find your thriftiest layers (and don't forget the males too!) that still meet your other requirements and breed from them. Basically finding the birds that convert their feed to muscle and eggs rather than fat. Year by year you will be able to make improvement. You probably won't be able to hit 250+ eggs a year without sacrificing breed traits, but there is no reason you shouldn't be able, with proper selection and great feeding practices, be in the 150-200 egg range which is very respectable for a breed that was bred for meat.

 

[Lacy Blues]

I think it might be time to get my Hogan's book out and study it some more.

 

[BGMatt]

I think it might be time to get my Hogan's book out and study it some more.

The stuff about capacity but more importantly the size/shape and fat covering of the pubic bones (and checking for excessive fat through abdomen) coupled with knowledge of the standard can have really great results as far as production in our birds.

I learned this method long before I ever read his book, from one of my mentors and FFA advisor as part of our poultry judging experience. Was kind of a shock much later in life when I learned that not every poultry keeper knew how to do this and then again when I read Call of the Hen for the first time and learned the method had a name It just makes sense to find the birds that are converting and using their food to produce eggs and lean muscle rather than tons of fat.