Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[MagicChicken]

Some of us may be using different concepts of "maturing." There is the time it takes to begin to lay, the time it takes to flesh out enough for meat, and the time it takes to finish out in growth/show potential. They are not the same time points.

My birds began laying at 4-5 months old but I did not consider them "mature" at that point. More like teenagers who finally got after-school jobs and took some of the pressure off the cost of raising them

The cockerels are still filling out at nearly one year of age, but the quality of the bone structure was evident from about 6 months. This is my first year with the breed. I'm guessing they won't have reached their full potential for another 6-12 months. So I consider these birds slow to mature, but they have been earning some of their keep in terms of eggs and meat since they were about 4 months old. I'm happy.

Sarah

 

[BGMatt]

Herein lies another issue.

If your bird starts laying at 6 or 7 months, in the Langshan breed, the eggs are simply not as large as a 10 month old birds' is. So you're either A. wasting that birds genetic potential by reducing the number of viable eggs. or B. raising the bird for production values only.

For me, I want eggs that I can start hatching from immediately. I have a Leghorn that started laying at 7 months (I tried to make her hold off, but that was as late as I could get her to lay) that has eggs much smaller, that I would never use as a hatching egg. My 10 month old birds which are in breeding pens have the correct size of egg that I would use to hatch from.

No, but that's why you breed from Hens (or pullets that have been laying for a few months). The eggs may be a little bit smaller, but you can either eat the eggs yourself or sell them for eating when they start laying earlier, at least the bird is now no longer a money pit and is producing.

 

[Beekissed]

That does clarify that term a good bit! Thank you! I always considered there was sexual maturity and then actual condition maturity, wherein their breasts and thighs fill in and they get their true weight and form. That was an apt description....juveniles capable of laying and breeding but not quite women yet.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

No, but that's why you breed from Hens (or pullets that have been laying for a few months). The eggs may be a little bit smaller, but you can either eat the eggs yourself or sell them for eating when they start laying earlier, at least the bird is now no longer a money pit and is producing.

But my question is why waste the genetic potential in eggs that you can't use other than eating? Why not wait until they are able to lay full-sized eggs that are able to immediately begin the next generation instead of wasting the energy and feed to put into eggs that are useful as eating, but not from breeding.

See...we will never agree on this! haha!

 

[BGMatt]

But my question is why waste the genetic potential in eggs that you can't use other than eating? Why not wait until they are able to lay full-sized eggs that are able to immediately begin the next generation instead of wasting the energy and feed to put into eggs that are useful as eating, but not from breeding.

See...we will never agree on this! haha!

Because you're also waiting longer, thus feeding longer and costing more before you make your culls. And ya know...chickens are supposed to be a food source. LOL

You're right we won't. I just don't see the benefit of waiting that long for eggs, then again if I have the space to keep them around, I prefer to breed from older birds so I can make sure I'm breeding from hens that have been productive not only their first full year of egg laying, but their second as well.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Because you're also waiting longer, thus feeding longer and costing more before you make your culls. And ya know...chickens are supposed to be a food source. LOL

You're right we won't. I just don't see the benefit of waiting that long for eggs, then again if I have the space to keep them around, I prefer to breed from older birds so I can make sure I'm breeding from hens that have been productive not only their first full year of egg laying, but their second as well.

Oh they are a food source...but only once I'm sure I don't need them. I get rid of the obvious culls at auctions for about $10-15 each. Then the ones that I consider using in the breeder pen get kept back until I know for sure whether I like them or whether they aren't what I'm after. If there are poorer cockerels, they get eaten at about 8 months. If I keep pullets that long, they're being sold as a trio with a cockerel that I might have used myself but didn't quite make the cut. Not bad birds, but not what I needed in my pens at the time. Those prices vary on quality, but there are plenty of 4H kids that are always looking for birds to truly start with. I must admit...that's where most of my better-than-average birds go. I'm a sucker for those little faces and seeing them light up. I'm a little more strict with my bantams. If they aren't something I want, those go straight to the laying pen or the auctions. So far this year, most have been exactly what I wanted with only a few leaving me to scratch my head how they turned out that way.

LOL! I just realized you think I get rid of my hens after their first year? Sorry, I usually keep them for 3-4 years depending on their quality and if the offspring are where I feel or see they need to be. If the hens are better than the pullets, they stay and the pullets go. I'm constantly judging the hens vs. the pullets and how the hens developed their first year.

 

[BGMatt]

Oh they are a food source...but only once I'm sure I don't need them. I get rid of the obvious culls at auctions for about $10-15 each. Then the ones that I consider using in the breeder pen get kept back until I know for sure whether I like them or whether they aren't what I'm after. If there are poorer cockerels, they get eaten at about 8 months. If I keep pullets that long, they're being sold as a trio with a cockerel that I might have used myself but didn't quite make the cut. Not bad birds, but not what I needed in my pens at the time. Those prices vary on quality, but there are plenty of 4H kids that are always looking for birds to truly start with. I must admit...that's where most of my better-than-average birds go. I'm a sucker for those little faces and seeing them light up. I'm a little more strict with my bantams. If they aren't something I want, those go straight to the laying pen or the auctions. So far this year, most have been exactly what I wanted with only a few leaving me to scratch my head how they turned out that way. 


LOL! I just realized you think I get rid of my hens after their first year? Sorry, I usually keep them for 3-4 years depending on their quality and if the offspring are where I feel or see they need to be. If the hens are better than the pullets, they stay and the pullets go. I'm constantly judging the hens vs. the pullets and how the hens developed their first year. 

No didn't think that. Just was pointing out why I didn't care if first pullet eggs were smaller and didn't hatch them.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Ah. Gotcha now.

 

[SallyinIndiana]

I bake a lot so once my heritage flock is bigger I will be eating or using their eggs for food. Right now I'm using the double yolkers for food. But I'm not getting as many doubles now that I have changed their food and the pullets are getting older. Which is what I wanted as I really need to hatch some RIR.

Who knows maybe in the fall I'll have enough of my own hatched RIR to try and get another RIR breeder over for input. I also want to have enough to be able to get a trio to another local breeder as a backup plan in case something should happen to my flock.

 

[Canieldonrad]

Got some La Flèche in November, two sources. Crossed one male over four unrelated, and one related, females. So far all of the adults seem quite vigorous. My first batch was set for the 31st. Already have 7/15 out on Day 20. No issues with vigor, legs or heads. Very happy with these birds so far, and very excited for the culling process I can endure with them. A lot open for improvement, but seems very manageable. Adults are in great condition health wise, type is right, color is right. Just need to breed some size to them and I will have viable birds in the show hall.