Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[brahmabreeder]

I don't what breed I'll go with but I really love the look of a good RIR. Need to continue doing my research.

 

[bnjrob]

If you are specifically looking for meat production with birds harvestable by six months, I don't recommend the Java. Javas are solid dual purpose birds. Mine are smart and they are good foragers. I think they are great birds. But there are reasons why the breed became less popular as other breeds came along. Some of those other breeds you listed will give you faster meat production.

In my Javas the pullets run small. At six months the cockerels may weigh 5 pounds but it is mostly bone and leg. The breasts don't fill out until much later. My cockerels didn't hit SOP weight (for cockerels) until they were at least 10 months old, and a lot of them remain undersized at one year. All of these things can be improved somewhat with management and breeding pressure, but Javas are not likely to fill out and be great meat birds by six months - especially if you want breast meat out of them. If you want legs they are excellent.

Javas in general need to improve in size since they pretty much went to pot early in the 20th century.

When looking at meat, it really depends on exactly what a person's desires are as far as how much meat is acceptable to them at what age. We've culled a 4 month old runt and he was plenty of meat for two people roasted for dinner. Any dual purpose bird like a Java is not going to have as much meat as breeds that have been bred to be meat birds. And of course comparing them to what you get in the store and with hatchery meat birds as far as the amt of breast meat - of course a dual purpose Java isn't going to be able to compare.

The term "lots of meat" isn't really quantitative. If "lots of meat" is something that rivals store bought breast meat - just buying hatchery broilers to raise is probably a better choice than bothering with heritage standard bred dual purpose birds. That's the thing people forget about Javas, they are dual purpose - they are not going to be as meaty as a meat breed or lay like an egg breed. But for an all around bird to get both decent meat and eggs as well as other non-culinary related benefits, Javas are great.

 

[desertmarcy]

I'm deciding to scrap my pair of buff Brahmas and get a breed designed for meat production. The main traits I'd like to see are 1)lots of meat 2)harvestable by six months old 3) cold hardy 4) good feed conversion ratio. Some other things I would like to see but aren't necessary are broodiness, them to be a solid colored variety, and the cocks to be between 7-10 lbs. at maturity. You guys can add any breeds to my list if you'd like as long as it fits the bill.
1) Chantecler
2) Plymouth rock
3) Faverolle
4) Java
5) Sussex
6) Rhode Island
7) Dorking

These are all ones that seem at first glance nice to me I don't know how well they fit. Which are the top three I should be looking into getting?

I can only speak to the Plymouth Rock and Rhode Island Red, two breeds I raise. There are some huge Rocks out there, particularly the White Rocks. They can be fast maturing and would fit your desire for solid color and size at 6 months. I have the Good Shepard line of Barred and Buffs and find the Barred Rocks to be slower maturing, but they do get big by 6 months and the cockerels are still immature and not fighting with each other at that age, a plus. It takes more time for their breast to fill out, though, and they are not solid colored. Disadvantage to the Rocks is single comb, not sure if you want a single-combed bird if you are looking for something cold hardy, but plenty of people keep them in cold climates. Of all the breeds I raise, the Barred Rocks are my favorite for a meat bird plus eggs.

The Rhode Island Reds I don't think will get big enough to be a nice meat bird. They are really dual purpose and smaller than the Rocks. I have butchered plenty at 7 months of age and only had carcass of 4 pounds or a little over 4 pounds. Not huge. Advantage is you can get rose comb variety and not have comb freezing issues. Hope this helps.

 

[hellbender]

With poultry, size means very little. Some very large chickens can weigh 13+ pounds but much of that is bone.

Same with rabbits...My choice is Florida Whites....Small compared to other breeds but produce far more meat per carcass than almost any other breed.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Is the growth rate of the Brahma the reason for searching out another meat breed? Definitely add the New Hampshire to the list, fast maturing was it's calling card when developed. Possibly the Delaware as well.

I started to put Delaware right beside the NH too but at the moment good ones are few and far between so I didn't even start that one rolling along but yeah if you can find good ones the Dels would be the better way to go, may even reign a little superior over the available of good NHs right now.The Good Shepard strain of NH's have good meat quality and growth rate too and the few Dels Mrs. Kathy has spread abroad do too, but they are as rare as hens teeth and a few folks have some of the older Delaware stock out there but they are a rarity too.

Jeff

 

[BGMatt]

I started to put Delaware right beside the NH too but at the moment good ones are few and far between so I didn't even start that one rolling along but yeah if you can find good ones the Dels would be the better way to go, may even reign a little superior over the available of good NHs right now.The Good Shepard strain of NH's have good meat quality and growth rate too and the few Dels Mrs. Kathy has spread abroad do too, but they are as rare as hens teeth and a few folks have some of the older Delaware stock out there but they are a rarity too.

Jeff

Truthfully good birds of any breeds that have kept their production qualities are as rare as can be. Even Bob used to point out there's only so many true breeders out there. It's always good for a chuckle when I get a message or email asking about what are the rarest breeds, the rarest chicken out there is a bird that meets the Standard (in all facets including production).

There's probably a few more good sources of New Hampshire than Delaware you're correct, but hopefully some of those that have been getting Kathy's stock will continue with them and turn into good breeders and the breed will see a rise in popularity. At least in this region it seems like Large Fowl in general are experiencing a resurgence of popularity in the last decade. Mostly from new exhibitors, and mostly American class breeds, but hopefully a few will stick around and become good breeders and paragons of their breed.

 

[Canieldonrad]

I'm deciding to scrap my pair of buff Brahmas and get a breed designed for meat production. The main traits I'd like to see are 1)lots of meat 2)harvestable by six months old 3) cold hardy 4) good feed conversion ratio. Some other things I would like to see but aren't necessary are broodiness, them to be a solid colored variety, and the cocks to be between 7-10 lbs. at maturity. You guys can add any breeds to my list if you'd like as long as it fits the bill.
1) Chantecler
2) Plymouth rock
3) Faverolle
4) Java
5) Sussex
6) Rhode Island
7) Dorking

These are all ones that seem at first glance nice to me I don't know how well they fit. Which are the top three I should be looking into getting?

Well lets deep dive your options/desires.
You want a solid color. Is white a consideration? You seem to be aiming toward a good meat bird. So white would be a great option if you, or those eating your birds, find pin feathers unsightly. If you don't care about pin feathers in the skin, pretty much everything is going to come in a (mostly) solid color. Is there a reason you wish for solid color?

Have you considered slaughtering before 6 months? Birds can be pretty tough by 4 months of age. Birds can also be, depending on your roasting pan, too big at 7+lbs.

How cold does it get during a typical Winter? Generally Summer time is when casualty and stress occur, not Winter. Is your Summer time harsh? What sort of humidity do you see on a typical day in each season?

Are these birds being kept in confinement or ranged? This might have a great deal of impact on feed conversion and weight gain.


And as for the New year 50+ Buckeyes and 8 La Flèche to bring in the New Year. ABA Leg Bands on the way. Ready to start culling the three week olds(ITS NEVER TOO EARLY).

Truthfully good birds of any breeds that have kept their production qualities are as rare as can be. Even Bob used to point out there's only so many true breeders out there. It's always good for a chuckle when I get a message or email asking about what are the rarest breeds, the rarest chicken out there is a bird that meets the Standard (in all facets including production).

There's probably a few more good sources of New Hampshire than Delaware you're correct, but hopefully some of those that have been getting Kathy's stock will continue with them and turn into good breeders and the breed will see a rise in popularity. At least in this region it seems like Large Fowl in general are experiencing a resurgence of popularity in the last decade. Mostly from new exhibitors, and mostly American class breeds, but hopefully a few will stick around and become good breeders and paragons of their breed.

I saw some Cream Legbar and Lavender Orpingtons on Ebay... they are pretty rare I heard

 

[BGMatt]

I saw some Cream Legbar and Lavender Orpingtons on Ebay... they are pretty rare I heard

*twitch* Yeah I *twitch* heard that *twitch* too. Hitting post now before I get myself banned from BYC.

 

[Canieldonrad]

And I don't mean any disrespect to people who keep them. They are great looking birds. But I don't understand the denotation of "rare" anymore. I guess if we really wanted to be honest with ourselves, anything not in a production facility would be considered rare as it would be a minority. Bantam Old English could be considered "rare" as they would be dwarfed when compared to the numbers of Production Leghorns, RIR/RIW, their hybrid offspring, and the Broilers.

 

[thedragonlady]

So, is that pretty common in heritage line birds...late maturity? I'm trying to get a bead on if I even want to go down that road and I'm a little worried about only having 4-5 eggs per week and a hen that doesn't lay until almost a year old....if that is common with heritage breed lines I'm thinking it wouldn't be worth having them as working chickens in a flock. There are no shows in my area and no market for selling high bred but low production birds, so the reasoning behind putting time and money into heritage breeds isn't showing up as practical for the average person.

I've heard from a couple of the OT breeders and they were working for a different result but I'm wondering why everyone isn't working for a better production and early maturing on their birds? That would seem to be better for all purposes but particularly for developing a line.

Bee, My buxom Buff girls lay, almost to the day, at 5 months old, and they keep laying, through heat and cold. The Cockerels make a great carcass at 5-6 months old, with plenty of meat.