Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[fowlman01]

I agree that is going to be a challenge, but I have minor experience with that. Enough to understand the process, so in that respect I feel comfortable.

The main challenge, (to me, right now), is transforming a bird that is not purely buff into a truly buff bird. No where in the world is Catalanas fully buff. Fundamentally, in a sense, they are.
Catalanas have the same color as Nankins. You can see the influence of the wheaton you mentioned in both of these breeds. The females are more buff than the males.
It is one of those, I wish the standard was written a bit differently, but it is what it is.

I get a sense, because of some of the allowances in the males, that this was a consideration. It is almost as if it is written to be in between what they are and a purely buff bird.

I am afraid that is going to be another challenge. I think with this project you get hanging out with the devil in the details. Requirements like in the hackles. Reddish buff shading to golden buff in the males. Or the back, reddish buff shading to a lighter buff going to the saddle. I get that, but with the males being required and allowed more red seams to make them overall darker than the females and then that would seam to make an even color in the females difficult.

You could spend a life time on a project like this. I think it is an interested project though. I will learn a lot in the process. I do not care what anyone else thinks about what I have, unless it is constructive input. I realize that what I have is in a poor state, but that is where some of the appeal lies. I will learn more about breeding poultry than I would by buying already nice birds and trying to maintain them.

Concerning a production type consideration, they are fundamentally the best I have ever had. And I have played with a few things along the way. They need some attention and uniformity in this respect, but the pieces are there.

Maybe I need to pick up on something else along the way, that I would have a chance to win something with. I would like to show a few birds hear and there. Get around more people that I can learn from. I want to get passed the experimental stage.
I hope to manage my illness better along the way, and pick back up what I started with on a small scale. I think that I could do something with them. As you know, I had to scale back a bit. I enjoy these birds though, and it would be nice to get a ribbon or so before whatever . . . .

It seems as if this is the perfect breed for you. You certainly won't get bored. I have Nankins, so I know how hard the color can be. I don't have much issue with color in the males with the Nankins, but the females are a huge problem. It is not unusual for the female of many varieties to be the hardest to get the color correct.

Walt

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Walt, do you have rose comb or single comb Nankins?

I hope you had fun at Congress. I regretted not getting to meet you. I spent the day clerking with Lewis Cunningham.

 

[Arielle]

It seems as if this is the perfect breed for you. You certainly won't get bored. I have Nankins, so I know how hard the color can be. I don't have much issue with color in the males with the Nankins, but the females are a huge problem. It is not unusual for the female of many varieties to be the hardest to get the color correct.

Walt

Walt, do you have rose comb or single comb Nankins?

I hope you had fun at Congress. I regretted not getting to meet you. I spent the day clerking with Lewis Cunningham.

I would like to know more about the history of the nankin. My family took a tour at the NEPC and learned the nankin is naturally a bantam. If there is a rose comb--that interests me even more.

 

[fowlman01]

Walt, do you have rose comb or single comb Nankins?

I hope you had fun at Congress. I regretted not getting to meet you. I spent the day clerking with Lewis Cunningham.

I was pretty busy too, but did get to meet a few people. You can learn a lot of Lew. He is one of the best all around judges out there now.

I had both combs, but only single comb now.

Walt

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I have a group of SS that stay in the woods all day and move around the leaf litter. THey do have pellets in their coop for as needed. The only down side is that the egg shells become very soft and break. I have sprinkled eggs shell around their favorite areas; and include oyster shell in their feed. IT is hit or miss. WHen I need to collect eggs for hatching , I keep them penned.


Karen-- thanks for reposting that source of seed. Lofts is another one we have used to seed our lawn.

Besides a container of oyster shell near the feed (not IN the feed), I also keep containers next to the nest boxes in each building. They usually clean out those containers first.
I quit feeding layer feed back in September and probably won't feed it again unless I end up with an entire flock that's actively laying. They're going through much more OS now. Shells are still as hard as ever. I got a couple pullet eggs with thin shells a couple months ago but that went away.

No I haven't personally, but am familiar with it. It has been used on some of my jobsites. I was a bit skeptical of it because it seams to be rather fine, small leaves, and struck me as coarse. I prefer softer more broad leaves for chickens. I did want to try in an area because of it's reputation of being slightly tolerable of shade.

Fescue is a good grass for birds, but you will fight the devil to keep it viable through our summers. I like St. Augustine, but I doubt it would have made it through this cold snap we just had. It does well in the low country SC.

Really, I think grass is a bit over rated for chickens. They will eat it when that is the majority of what they have. Really when they are foraging what they are looking for most is weed seeds, sprouting weeds, and insects. They really prefer to forage under the cover of trees and scratch through the leaf litter, and forage the edges. They prefer an edge type habitat where there is cover and a surplus of food.

Only 15% of the jungle fowl's diet is greens, and most of that is sprouting and tender sweet leaves. 50% is seeds. 20% is insects etc., and 15% is fruit. Adjusted according to availability and season of course. Just to give an idea.

I agree that grass is overrated for chickens. The best grass/forage to use depends largely on one's climate/time of year. Zoysia and Bermuda grow well here in the summer but are a dead brown mat from late October to April so worthless for forage and like you, anything that is more fibrous they seem to ignore. I have a flock in a large pen that going into fall had turnips, radish, alfalfa, clover, turf type fescue and various weeds. Right now (temps at or below zero for over a month) the only thing left is the fescue and they don't touch it. It's too mature and tough. So everything is bare soil with big clumps of fescue.
Even if they would consume a higher percentage of greens, greens have a high moisture content so the resultant solid dietary percentage is lower.

I rotate pastures and am constantly planting from late February through early October. It's a moot point this time of year.
.

If they are fenced in on grass, they will spend more time in front of the feeders. If they are not confined and there is tree cover they will hit the trees and shrubs and spend the majority of their time their. When I speak of foraging I am thinking trees, shrubs, and some grass.

Really you want them eating the feed you provide. It is hard to beat what comes in a bag. Our birds are not jungle fowl, and we want them to perform. I guess what I think about is the best of both worlds. The birds are better for it.

Right, the bag is based on decades of exhaustive research and is better for modern breeds. The quality of what is in the bag makes a difference too. Most layer feed, for example, is the nutritional foundation for a modern laying flock and will give the best production conversion for feed cost if that is the sole ration. The more we mess with that the less we know what ratios of protein, fats, vitamins and minerals they are getting.
A layer feed isn't optimum nutrition for breeders though and if we don't source a good breeder ration or supplement vitamins and better protein source, hatchability can suffer.
Some breeds are better than others at gleaning nutrition from forage but only if that forage is pristine in warmer weather when insects are active and new growth emerging.

Ok, so I'm hoping that my rooster that was acting weird just has worms because I'm starting to get nervous I'll be one rooster short this year

. He now has green-blue poop that is in the runny form or at least I think it is since it's all on his butt feathers. He's now dropping in weight. Not too bad yet but still he should be adding weight at this point. He's losing color in his face, not horribly, but it's starting to go. He's still walking but not a whole ton. I put water in and he came over to drink. Right now he is in my other coop by himself with his own feed and water. He has just been dewormed.

The only cause of blue-green droppings I'm aware of is moldy grain or feed. Check your feed closely, see if it's gotten damp.
Did you check a fecal sample for type/load of worms?
Hope he recovers. I hate being low on roosters.

@PetRock Picked up some special ones at the Stockton Show

Langshans!

Nice, let me know how their egg color is.

Ok I'll go out there and do that. We may only have vanilla yogurt as the 'simplest' flavor.

Keep plain yogurt on hand. Properly sealed, it lasts a long time. Any 'flavored' yogurt will have a lot of sugar. Or worse yet, artificial sweeteners.

 

[fowlman01]

I would like to know more about the history of the nankin. My family took a tour at the NEPC and learned the nankin is naturally a bantam. If there is a rose comb--that interests me even more.

They are a very old breed and a true bantam.

w.

 

[Arielle]

Karen-- if I might request some info-- any old history on the nankin? Might not as it was only recently included in the APA. The little history I heard was one flock left in England before flocks starting here.

 

[ronott1]

Nice, let me know how their egg color is.

Keep plain yogurt on hand. Properly sealed, it lasts a long time. Any 'flavored' yogurt will have a lot of sugar. Or worse yet, artificial sweeteners.

I may have to pick up some hatching eggs from these guys...I love Black chickens.

 

[brahmabreeder]

The only cause of blue-green droppings I'm aware of is moldy grain or feed. Check your feed closely, see if it's gotten damp. Did you check a fecal sample for type/load of worms?
Hope he recovers. I hate being low on roosters.

Keep plain yogurt on hand. Properly sealed, it lasts a long time. Any 'flavored' yogurt will have a lot of sugar. Or worse yet, artificial sweeteners.

Well, right now I'm working on the plain yogurt thing. Everyone is getting hyper because my sister's baby shower is today so I'm just trying to avoid everyone right now until they calm down. I'll probably have my dad take me once they leave in a few minutes. Feed is NOT moldy. I have been force feeding food( egg, yogurt, calf manna, and corid water ) just to make sure he doesn't die from starvation and can keep his energy up a little more to fight off whatever this is. I will be adding Galimycin(sp?) to his water and shoving that down because his feet have a few sores and I don't want another episode of staph with my birds.

 

[thedragonlady]

Well, right now I'm working on the plain yogurt thing. Everyone is getting hyper because my sister's baby shower is today so I'm just trying to avoid everyone right now until they calm down. I'll probably have my dad take me once they leave in a few minutes. Feed is NOT moldy. I have been force feeding food( egg, yogurt, calf manna, and corid water ) just to make sure he doesn't die from starvation and can keep his energy up a little more to fight off whatever this is. I will be adding Galimycin(sp?) to his water and shoving that down because his feet have a few sores and I don't want another episode of staph with my birds.

If you are having to force feed, the vets have an ideal paste called Nutrical. I kept my hawk struck hen alive on it for a week, after her throat was ripped open.She is eating small amounts now, but her throat is still very sore.one inch of Nutrical twice a day will keep a bird going for a long time. I've used it on all sorts of sick, or hurt critters. Good stuff !