Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[Tammy N]

Quote:

Now..if you really want to point a finger at disease running rampant through poultry and other livestock, you can point one at that man and the result you got in your birds and I'll tell you why. The antibiotics do weaken the pathogen and it can even possibly kill them off in such numbers that they no longer affect the host to such a degree. But...what about the pathogens that survived the antibiotic? They survived. Not only did they survive but they then breed more just like themselves, little carbon copies that genetically have a strong resistance to the antibiotic and can thrive past it...they even form a hard shell around their cells so that simple white blood cells found in the average immune system cannot penetrate them. This leaves a bird with a small colony of resistant pathogens strolling into the average flock of birds that are good at resisting the regular run of the mill GM but all the sudden they are exposed to SUPER GM, Resistant to all Evil Antibiotics and WBC that were previously their kryptonite.

The man you got your birds from feeds an antibiotic that is supposed to work on GM.... as a daily feed ration? Pretty soon that's like water off a duck's back to the super GM he is breeding that will travel with his flocks everywhere they go, all the eggs they produce, wreaking havoc on all the birds who would normally resist infection but are presented with an amped up version of GM because Farmer Tom decided to use broad spectrum antibiotics each and every day. Oh..and add to that GM all the other baddies because "broad-spectrum" means just that..is supposed to kill a broad range of pathogens. Lovely. Good job, Farmer Tom.

This is why we have wonderfully strong pathogens that kill those humans who ingest them, like E. coli ST131. The average person is ingesting e.coli sourced from another host for the better part of their lives as they move through this world and their bodies shake it off like it were a fly....no worries. Then drug resistant and superfly strong e.coli gets introduced into our food supply by Farmer Tom~AKA Too lazy and greedy to do things right, so will just feed antibiotics to make up for his shoddy livestock husbandry~and folks...and birds and cows, pigs and sheep... start to die.

Essentially, he is breeding very strong germ genetics that will still be around when he is long dead and gone. <Insert slow clap here> His legacy will live on...and on...and on as each consecutive generation of lazy and greedy farmer feeds the next new drug to the next strong generation of germs. Yahoo. What a great heritage line is being developed...everyone stand up and pay attention to that guy because he is really leaving footprints on this land.

Should you start feeding antibiotic laced feed to your flock? Sure..if you want to develop a strong heritage line of pathogens.

Sorry for the sarcasm and it is not directed towards you, Tammy as you are merely a victim, but this topic really gets my tailfeathers in a flip....

Thank you your post was said better then what i could o saif it myself I laughed my but off whats worse is roy wont admit he has an issue he said I medicate so i dont get The problem . I am learning hurt and yes upset . but More or less whanting opinions I sometimes sound heated on this subject not twards any one here . but twards Roy the guy who hatches and hatches and is doing meds on all his birds i asked him ok what happens when the disease is stronger then the anti Biotic His answer I dose Higher then before .................... PALM HAND right ?

 

[Tammy N]

I do not remember who said chicks on the ground build a better immune system but that rang a bell with me
I hatched some eggs dark brahma before i knew what was up and that i even had an issue

I did call both friends who got them
scott put his outside in a ground pen and Mary hers in a Brooder

Mary lost her 10 same siblings and hatching as scotts 15 scott lost 1 to a cat attack



HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM makes me think thanks Like i said i am learning and

forgive me but who is wayne ?

 

[fowlman01]

I think of prepotency as a male that will produce better than average stock no matter what the female looks like. I have seen this happen through the years. It happened to me this year in the New Hamps. I had very little in the way of males to chose from and the male I used was a last resort. Some of the females where too, but I went ahead with the mating hoping to get a good bird or two. Well almost all the New Hamps were good enough to show and are proving that in the show ring. I have had that happen a few times over the years, but not often. These have been males in chickens and once Call ducks. It has been a very rare occurance for me.

Walt

 

[Fred's Hens]

I think of prepotency as a male that will produce better than average stock no matter what the female looks like. I have seen this happen through the years. It happened to me this year in the New Hamps. I had very little in the way of males to chose from and the male I used was a last resort. Some of the females where too, but I went ahead with the mating hoping to get a good bird or two. Well almost all the New Hamps were good enough to show and are proving that in the show ring. I have had that happen a few times over the years, but not often. These have been males in chickens and once Call ducks. It has been a very rare occurance for me.

Walt

Thanks Walt. That's what came to my mind and that's why I thought to bring it up in here. Sorry, if it is a side bar conversation, but I hadn't thought about it for years and we don't very often discuss prepotency as a possibility. But it was the thought that crossed my mind when one of these three males put out offspring that was so much better than the other two.

My thoughts now are to see if he does that again, this spring.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

How many birds in how big a open? Are these all birds that have been living all together in a brooder, or are you mixing groups? Something is triggering the coccidia to multiply.Generally it is stress.If you have older birds in that pen, and you add younger ones...Bingo = Stress= coccidia outbreak.

Good morning (no java yet so a tad foggy)

Normally here is what I do:

1. Collect and hatch eggs from a weeks worth of collecting (could be 18 eggs +/-). Incubate
2. After those 18 hatch, they go to an outdoor brooder, all together. That brooder has an indoor and an "outdoor" area, but it is up on legs. Shavings for bedding
3. These birds are in this brooder for 6-8 weeks (long enough to get enough feathers to stay warm for short periods of time without heat)
4. At 6-8 weeks they go to one of 3 grow out pens (no adults). These are 3ft wide x 6ft long coops, 3ft ceilings attached to a 10ft by 10ft outdoor run (covered with wire to protect from the hawks, etc). The coop will have 1 brooder bulb, normally 100W, to knock the chill off at night
5. At about 10-12 weeks, I'll let them begin to get out with the adults "free range" if the weather is nice enough.

I have 3 brooders and 3 grow out pens, so I rotate hatches through each one.

I hope that makes sense.....much in need of caffeine

 

[thedragonlady]

Thanks Joseph.

Now let's go a bit deeper, or broader, if you will. I put three different males (all "brothers") over a select 3 hens. Then, hatched a batch of chicks from each mating. The #2 male absolutely produced a far superior batch of offspring. Noticeably. Would you describe this noticeable difference a a difference in nicking, or a the one male being prepotent or something else?

Genetically those 3 brothers probably carry different genes.The #2 male may be prepotent, or you may just have found a good nick with those females. Breed a few daughters back to him, and see.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Genetically those 3 brothers probably carry different genes.The #2 male may be prepotent, or you may just have found a good nick with those females. Breed a few daughters back to him, and see.

Hahaha. For sure. Thanks Vickie.

 

[thedragonlady]

Good morning (no java yet so a tad foggy)

Normally here is what I do:

1. Collect and hatch eggs from a weeks worth of collecting (could be 18 eggs +/-). Incubate
2. After those 18 hatch, they go to an outdoor brooder, all together. That brooder has an indoor and an "outdoor" area, but it is up on legs. Shavings for bedding
3. These birds are in this brooder for 6-8 weeks (long enough to get enough feathers to stay warm for short periods of time without heat)
4. At 6-8 weeks they go to one of 3 grow out pens (no adults). These are 3ft wide x 6ft long coops, 3ft ceilings attached to a 10ft by 10ft outdoor run (covered with wire to protect from the hawks, etc). The coop will have 1 brooder bulb, normally 100W, to knock the chill off at night
5. At about 10-12 weeks, I'll let them begin to get out with the adults "free range" if the weather is nice enough.

I have 3 brooders and 3 grow out pens, so I rotate hatches through each one.

I hope that makes sense.....much in need of caffeine

Are you mixing the age groups in the brooders, or grow out pens ? I routinely add chicks to my brooder which is a 6' round Rubbermaid water tub. It is bedded with shavings. I will have chicks from 4 days old-4 weeks old in that same brooder.Babies go out at 4 weeks old into a 10 x 10 'covered run, with an insulated sleeping box with a light. I marvel that Orps get along so well, and as long as you introduce a few chicks at a time , there are no problems with bullying. Zero problems with coccidia with this method, on medicated feed. I DO worm at 2, and 4 weeks, with Wazine too.When these babies are moved outside, they are moved in groups. Having buddies relieves stress.I firmly believe that having a broody mom, who is a security blanket for chicks, reduces stress, and the incidence of coccidia. The babies get plenty of exposure to coccidia, but few develop it due to the lack of stress.

 

[RedRidge]

Quote: This is about what I do... I have 2 off the ground brooders.... they are in the first one for the first 3 weeks, then I move them over to the 2nd one for weeks 4-6.
I hatch once every 3 weeks normally, but if I hatch more often I will combine anyone who is less than 10 days apart - they combine that close in age very easily.
They go in a dirt floor coop at 6 weeks... outside access after that with maremma as guardians.
At about 4-5 months old I divide by sex...
By breeding season I then put the non-breeders in my "egg only" group (I combine at night while roosting after at least a week of being next to each other).
If you combine "groups" and not single birds then no one single bird gets picked on... usually...

I have a separate grow out area for non-breeder cockerels... I also use those if I happen to have a teenage maremma that year - good training just case I have an enthusiastic one.

 

[RedRidge]

Quote: This is about what I do... I have 2 off the ground brooders.... they are in the first one for the first 3 weeks, then I move them over to the 2nd one for weeks 4-6.
I hatch once every 3 weeks normally, but if I hatch more often I will combine anyone who is less than 10 days apart - they combine that close in age very easily.
They go in a dirt floor coop at 6 weeks... outside access after that with maremma as guardians.
At about 4-5 months old I divide by sex...
By breeding season I then put the non-breeders in my "egg only" group (I combine at night while roosting after at least a week of being next to each other).
If you combine "groups" and not single birds then no one single bird gets picked on... usually...

I have a separate grow out area for non-breeder cockerels... I also use those if I happen to have a teenage maremma that year - good training just case I have an enthusiastic one.

This is for incubator chicks, of course... my broodies raise their chicks with everyone else...