@ brahmabreeder....Albon is a bit more expensive but I think superior for treating actual clinical signs of coccidiosis. IMHO
Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II
- Thread starter juststruttin
- Start date
I would personally never run turkeys with chickens, however silly that may sound to some, considering my birds are free-range, in the most extreme sense of the term and cross paths with wild turkeys on a regular basis. There's just something about having them confined together or in close proximity that grates on my sensibilities.
Very informational thank you. I use wood ash as a natural mite & lice preventive & on occasion see my hens eat the ash as well. I always figured there was a reason why they felt they needed to consume it. I have never had cocci at my coop but perhaps its because I have had wood ash available.I have been researching this the last week. Apparently charcoal is in wide use around the world for this purpose but not so much in America. I have a bunch of articles like this, but this one is a real good synopsis. Basically, the charcoal has an absorbent surface 2,000 times the size of the grain. It does nothing nutritionally for the bird but absorbs toxins.
Best,
Karen
What is Coccidiosis in Chickens? Keep Chicken Diseases down on Homesteads
http://www.countryfarm-lifestyles.com/coccidiosis-in-chickens.html
Charcoal for treating Coccidiosis
http://www.countryfarm-lifestyles.com/charcoal-for-treating-coccidiosis.html
Poultry (and all birds) HAPPY TUMMYCharcoal boosts poultry profits
http://www.finefettlefeed.com/poultry.asp
http://www.finefettlefeed.com/product/1/Happy-Tummy.html
A few questions on the subject like how often to feed it. Opinions seem divided. Happy Tummy and others say to feed daily. But CountryFarm and others say to feed only a few days a week. Countryfarm has a point about not feeding it dry. First time I have seen that mentioned. Then there is the question of which kind of charcoal to use. Some use a grain-based charcoal, like charred corn on the cob. Others use wood charcoal. I haven't found sufficient info on the best form to feed as far as particle size goes. Charcoal pieces or powder?
Onward and upward,
Karen
We heat with wood and throw the ash on the garden once every 3-4 days... The chickens take it from there, whatever their needs may be. I do not feed medicated feed. We are way over our rain limit over the last few years (another 3" in the last 36 hrs) and we have never had a mite or cocci problem, so...
Coccidia is not a toxin. It is a nasty protozoa that multiplies in huge numbers when an animal is stressed for any reason. The odor you smell with a bad case is actually the lining of the intestines sloughing off, and rotting. Parvo in dogs , which is caused by a virus, has the same effect. All the charcoal in the world won't stop that from happening, if your wild bird population carries the right oocysts for infection of your flock. If your wild bird population is clean, you are in luck. If not, use medicated feed.
The cocci comment was unassociated with the ash. And I actually worded it poorly because what I should have said is that they do have an exposure to cocci but handle any exposure fine.
Cocci exists everywhere. Just like staph does. It's how your animals are exposed and handle any load they carry that determine the health of your animals.
It's like parasites in sheep... I hear people say all the time their sheep don't have parasites. That's bull dookie. Give me any fecal sample and I can prove it. All sheep have parasites... whether they are dewormed regularly or not. It's how that individual animal handles the load they have that will determine not only their health but what steps the owner should take.
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I would personally never run turkeys with chickens, however silly that may sound to some, considering my birds are free-range, in the most extreme sense of the term and cross paths with wild turkeys on a regular basis. There's just something about having them confined together or in close proximity that grates on my sensibilities.
If I run turkeys with chickens here, the turkey hens will die within 2-3 months with the boys checking out at about 6 months. I don't medicate any of these birds.........with the exception of medicated chick starter. If the chicks are raised with a broody they are cocci resistant, if raised in a brooder they will get cocci here as soon as they hit the ground. I have tried many things over the years and the only thing that works is medicated feed for a few weeks when they hit the ground. I have some very nice Dutch bantams that are dieing off from cocci now, but they are adults and I'm not going to do anything about it. The strong will survive and I don't have time to deal with sick birds. The average lifespan of a chicken her is 9-10 years without any medical intervention. I only have time for strong birds.
Walt
We are assuming that the bird that started the conversation was in fact killed by cocci. I agree that may be most likely, but you can't positively tell without cutting the intestines open. Often a bird that is burdened by cocci can be killed by a co infection. Other gut diseases can cause similar symptoms. There is somewhere around a dozen species of cocci that can infect chickens. A few are the most significant.
Chickens can develop resistance if they are exposed at low levels. High levels exist where many birds have been concentrated over a period of time. Warm damp conditions can create conditions for a population explosion, overwhelming even adult birds that have been exposed prior. These same conditions can cause other pathogens to thrive, so often the birds are burdened by more than one thing.
Adult birds that have never been exposed to it, and are suddenly exposed to higher numbers can succumb to cocci.
Chicks are especially vulnerable because there is no acquired immunity, they are concentrated in a warm space, and possibly a humid environment. The conditions could be ripe for a population explosion.
Management is the best tool against cocci. Generally speaking adults that have been exposed to it before are fine if the bedding and grounds is kept in good shape.
Chicks that are provided clean bedding, in clean brooders, the bedding is well maintained, the humidity kept low, and are not overcrowded, are not as likely to suffer an outbreak. The best possible management does not eliminate the possibility so many use medicated starter.
Cocci can become drug resistant, so management is the best first option. I will use medicated starter when I need to. I assume at some point that I will.
You are most likely to have a problem when introducing new birds that have never been exposed to what you have on your yard, the birds have weak immune systems, or management is poor.
Chickens can develop resistance if they are exposed at low levels. High levels exist where many birds have been concentrated over a period of time. Warm damp conditions can create conditions for a population explosion, overwhelming even adult birds that have been exposed prior. These same conditions can cause other pathogens to thrive, so often the birds are burdened by more than one thing.
Adult birds that have never been exposed to it, and are suddenly exposed to higher numbers can succumb to cocci.
Chicks are especially vulnerable because there is no acquired immunity, they are concentrated in a warm space, and possibly a humid environment. The conditions could be ripe for a population explosion.
Management is the best tool against cocci. Generally speaking adults that have been exposed to it before are fine if the bedding and grounds is kept in good shape.
Chicks that are provided clean bedding, in clean brooders, the bedding is well maintained, the humidity kept low, and are not overcrowded, are not as likely to suffer an outbreak. The best possible management does not eliminate the possibility so many use medicated starter.
Cocci can become drug resistant, so management is the best first option. I will use medicated starter when I need to. I assume at some point that I will.
You are most likely to have a problem when introducing new birds that have never been exposed to what you have on your yard, the birds have weak immune systems, or management is poor.
I have had this same problem. My soulution? No more turkeys.
I have been researching this the last week. Apparently charcoal is in wide use around the world for this purpose but not so much in America. I have a bunch of articles like this, but this one is a real good synopsis. Basically, the charcoal has an absorbent surface 2,000 times the size of the grain. It does nothing nutritionally for the bird but absorbs toxins.
Best,
Karen
What is Coccidiosis in Chickens? Keep Chicken Diseases down on Homesteads
http://www.countryfarm-lifestyles.com/coccidiosis-in-chickens.html
Charcoal for treating Coccidiosis
http://www.countryfarm-lifestyles.com/charcoal-for-treating-coccidiosis.html
Poultry (and all birds) HAPPY TUMMYCharcoal boosts poultry profits
http://www.finefettlefeed.com/poultry.asp
http://www.finefettlefeed.com/product/1/Happy-Tummy.html
A few questions on the subject like how often to feed it. Opinions seem divided. Happy Tummy and others say to feed daily. But CountryFarm and others say to feed only a few days a week. Countryfarm has a point about not feeding it dry. First time I have seen that mentioned. Then there is the question of which kind of charcoal to use. Some use a grain-based charcoal, like charred corn on the cob. Others use wood charcoal. I haven't found sufficient info on the best form to feed as far as particle size goes. Charcoal pieces or powder?
Onward and upward,
Karen
If you carefully read the Happy Tummy ad, they only make three claims. One is cleaner drier bedding which has been proven. Another is that it aids in digestion by aiding in the grinding of food (which is irrelevant if the bird is supplied adequate grit), Also that it binds toxins, which it has been shown to be an aid.
The bedding in a home flock is easier to manage and it gets more personal attention. My birds do not need it to grind food. I also do not expect them to be exposed to high levels of toxins.
The other benefits that are implied are tied directly back to those three.
If young birds are not provided enough grit, and the stocking density is high like in a commercial setting, I can see improvement in growth rates. Ammonia is a real pressure in a commercial setting. The details from the supposed studies are not known.
Their claims have some validity, but they are intentionally exaggerated. They are selling a product.
The link above it claims it to be a cure for cocci. Cocci gets into the intestinal walls, so I seriously doubt that claim. There is a lot of claims like that online. One person believes something works, makes that belief public, and everyone starts to believe it.
I was reading through this prepper site recently. I could not believe what these city folk believed about keeping chickens etc. I was thinking to myself if the worst happened these guys would be the first to go, and maybe we would be better for it. Natural selection. LOL.Some of these guys are guaranteed to starve.
Charcoal has been proven to improve bedding quality. Not much more. If your birds have access to it occasionally when they are free range, I am sure it does not hurt and may help. I think these claims get exaggerated though.
Wood ash can be a mineral supplement. It is also good dusting material. Dusting helps control lice and mites, but the wood ash itself does not.
The best management practices for lice and mites is the chemicals that everyone hates so much. The same with worms.
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