Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

Well that's what I'm trying to assess. If I know what is required I can then adjust my plan to what I can accommodate. I have dorkings which like to roam a lot. I had thought about having the hens separated until I had the eggs I needed and hatched and then let them go back to the laying coop. I know roosters tend to not reintegrate well so I thought I'd just leave them in the breeding pen. Would I need two grow out pens, one for pullets one for cockrels or could the pullets be added back to the general population? I know each flock is different but I'd like a plan to start with and adjust as it develops.

I raise Dorkings and Delawares. I started out with just one coop but keep needing more structures. This is what I have now:

I have the set of 8 breeding pens that are 4x8 each, with exercise run. I use my 16 ft x 16 ft. pig farrowing barn as a brooding barn, for newly hatched chicks. When they start flying out of the brooder, they are moved to a coop that is about 20 ft x 20 ft. I open this coop door during the day, so that they can range on the grass. There are trees and bushes here to protect them from hawks.
When they start showing signs of sexual maturity, I separate the males. I have 3 wire, roofed, open air coops. One 8x16 ft. for pullet/hen culls, one 8 x 16 ft. for cockerel culls, and one 16 x 16 ft. for cockerel grow outs. I have a mobile layer coop, made from a 20+ foot travel trailer, out in my pastures with the other livestock. My adult hens are kept here, when not used for breeding. I rotate cocks out there, so they each get some free range time.
I added two more coops when I started breeding the Delawares. One is 8 x 10 ft. The other is 16 x 8 ft. Each of these coops have 2 large fenced areas on both ends, so I rotate growing forage or garden on one side and let the chickens roam the other.
I also have a 4x6 ft. kennel that I modified into a mobile coop. I use this when I need to separate birds. I recently bought a 10 x 10 kennel to upgrade into a pullet grow out pen. I used to put older pullets out in the layer mobile coop but the hawks are attracted to young birds. They leave mature large fowl alone, luckily.

Since I would like to show, I need a place to cage train and condition birds for that purpose. I bought some exhibition coops, but am still trying to figure out the best place for them. I have them up on platforms in the cockerel grow out pens, but, since those are wire walled, predators and sun are a concern. I either need to cover that wall or move them. I also need more exhibition coops because I need to cage train and I use them for evaluating growing birds.
My plan to use the breeding pens for conditioning isn't going to work because the cocks shred their tails on the wire when they are on the roost and turn around. My husband's going to lose it, if I ask him to build me more coops! But, I need conditioning coops.

I really could use another set of pens, similar to the breeding pens, but maybe a little smaller. The cockerels in the grow out pen are starting to scuffle a bit. The smaller, younger Dorkings are bullying the larger Dels, which is unusual. It's difficult to have slower maturing breeds because you have to have so much space for cockerels.
I think most breeders have smaller size coops, but I feel so bad for caged birds that I like to give them as much space as possible. You might ask Yellow House Farm, I think he does this with less or smaller buildings. One difference is that he has to deal with extreme cold. I deal with extreme heat. That can make a difference in design.
 
I can't afford that much infrastructure. I have the land but don't want to build that much. I'm looking at a small program. Starting with two families and see how much work that is. I plan on hatching out 20-30 combined and picking 2-3 keepers from those and start again the next year. I think the most I want to carry through from year to year is 10-15. Hatch out a batch at the beginning of the year and keep the best, eat the rest. I'm just trying to figure out how to manage them all. I think I would put the cockerels in a fence with a 3 side shelter out in the pasture, just not sure if the pullets would need separating from the older hens or not. The problem with that is not allowing the keepers to free range with the rest of the flock. It's one thing to lose a random laying hen and another to lose the hen you were counting on for next years generation.
 
If you have two families, and want to carry (lets say) 16, then you will need two males from each family, leaving six hens from each family line. Sounds like you need two pens to house eight birds each and a couple of smaller ones in case you have to separate the males.

Then, you will need brooder space for 30 chicks and two grow out pens (male and female) with plans to toe punch or band the birds to distinguish between the families until they are either selected or culled. I think that would be bare minimum.
 
I can't afford that much infrastructure. I have the land but don't want to build that much. I'm looking at a small program. Starting with two families and see how much work that is. I plan on hatching out 20-30 combined and picking 2-3 keepers from those and start again the next year. I think the most I want to carry through from year to year is 10-15. Hatch out a batch at the beginning of the year and keep the best, eat the rest. I'm just trying to figure out how to manage them all. I think I would put the cockerels in a fence with a 3 side shelter out in the pasture, just not sure if the pullets would need separating from the older hens or not. The problem with that is not allowing the keepers to free range with the rest of the flock. It's one thing to lose a random laying hen and another to lose the hen you were counting on for next years generation.
Just put my 14 week pullets with the older hens and # 1 Cock - they learn to adapt but Delaware's are not aggressive as some- We have two trailer coops - one for Breeding and other for egg flock [#2cock] - all are in movable Enet - Now when growing out cockerels at 14 weeks the breeder trailer is a grow out coop - after we kill it will go back to selective breeder coop - we also have a 6x10 dog run under barn porch that is a chic grow out to 14 weeks -
we are small scale and this works for us- others mileage may vary
 
If you have two families, and want to carry (lets say) 16, then you will need two males from each family, leaving six hens from each family line. Sounds like you need two pens to house eight birds each and a couple of smaller ones in case you have to separate the males.

Then, you will need brooder space for 30 chicks and two grow out pens (male and female) with plans to toe punch or band the birds to distinguish between the families until they are either selected or culled. I think that would be bare minimum.

This sounds perfect. At least for me. I'm not in a big hurry so will take this winter getting ready for spring.
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I can't afford that much infrastructure. I have the land but don't want to build that much. I'm looking at a small program. Starting with two families and see how much work that is. I plan on hatching out 20-30 combined and picking 2-3 keepers from those and start again the next year. I think the most I want to carry through from year to year is 10-15. Hatch out a batch at the beginning of the year and keep the best, eat the rest. I'm just trying to figure out how to manage them all. I think I would put the cockerels in a fence with a 3 side shelter out in the pasture, just not sure if the pullets would need separating from the older hens or not. The problem with that is not allowing the keepers to free range with the rest of the flock. It's one thing to lose a random laying hen and another to lose the hen you were counting on for next years generation.
You will figure out your own rhythm. I do not know anyone that does anything exactly the same. Have some room for overflow regardless.

The infrastructure does not need to be fancy or extravagant, just effective. You can do it little by little and I suspect that you will.

You can also still make progress by flock mating. It goes against "conventional wisdom", but it still boils down to selection. It all boils down to selection, regardless of the method. It is slower progress, but it is still progress. This requires one house, run, and yard. Then something to grow out pullets, and something to grow out cockerels. Replace the males every two years, and let the pullets make up half of the flock.
Keep about 20 females (or 16) and a few males. Find out who is doing the best with your breed variety and buy a trio every three or four years.

Might not be ideal, but it is simple, and could work. It would still boil down to selection.

There is also nothing wrong with hatching every other year.

I am not mentioning these things as recommendations. Just pointing out that there is a lot of ways to have a successful flock for those that cannot or do not want to get too extensive with the process.

Some will remark that they would rather put their best four hens with their best cock. My response would be that you still are.

This is not how I manage my own, just trying to expand the possibilities.
 
If you have two families, and want to carry (lets say) 16, then you will need two males from each family, leaving six hens from each family line. Sounds like you need two pens to house eight birds each and a couple of smaller ones in case you have to separate the males.

Then, you will need brooder space for 30 chicks and two grow out pens (male and female) with plans to toe punch or band the birds to distinguish between the families until they are either selected or culled. I think that would be bare minimum.

I think this, with the modification of two breeding pens so that I can selective breed and only one coop for the finalists that carry through the winter. If the two hen flocks can't be mixed back together without fighting I guess a second coop will be in order.
 
Here, try this thread.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/916877/the-frugal-small-flock-sop-breeder
I use triple thick sided watermelon corrals for my chicks. One corral is 15 sq. ft. and will grow out
7 large fowl chicks to "started bird" selling age. ( 2-3 months). I described mine in this thread.
I get them for free at Aldi's Food Markets. Mine are in my garage so predators can't get to the chicks.
I roof mine with chicken wire or hardware cloth. I hatched 29 and the hen hatched 4 this year.
I have 4 corrals running and 3 in a brooder on the front porch, plus the 4 with mama hen in the yard
out back . we are a really small operation here too. Some poultry folk will say one needs to hatch 100's
to help a breed. My stance on that is. 1. if you start with very high quality stock. 2. study the breed and
the points of the strain. 3. can cull judiciously, then 4. I can be as successful as Dragonlady and others
who have succeeded with limited numbers. I think if any of the 1st 3 points are lacking, success just
isn't going to happen with small numbers. One needs them all in play. If one isn't diligent about #2,
then 3 will almost be impossible.
Best,
Karen
 
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I believe you are on the right track. Separating the pullets from the cockerels as soon as you know the difference alleviates stress and seems to make a difference in the growth rate. They just do better. I separate mine when they are quite young and as I cull from the pullet pen, they go to the layer flock. That pen (the layer flock) has some cull roosters to keep watch and order, and that is the flock I sell from if people want young layers or males for the pot. It is working pretty well but I wish (there I go again) that I had room to grow out both genders to a year and then cull just one time (although that would be expensive!)
It is expensive. I am growing out 29. I will be at the limit I want to spend growing them out by 3 months old.
I figure if I can't figure spot a good'un by that age, something is really lacking, smile.
By Sept. 10th, I hope to be down to 13 birds ( 6 of which will be my keepers /7 hold for customers).
Plus I need to rehome 4 from the egg flock. Oh the egg flock! sigh, they have suddenly decided to go broody.
Three of thm are wanting to sit eggs. Not gonna happen except for March who has already been sitting
nearly 3 weeks.
Best,
Karen
 

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