Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[Wisher1000]

Can some one help me with some thing. I've been looking to ad more varieties of American dual purpose birds to my flock. I'm looking for birds that lay decent amounts of eggs, meaty and broody, so they hatch their eggs them selves.

But it seems most breeders are breading out broodiness. Making people rely on incubators if they want off spring. How are you to sustain any breed they don't have the ability to hatch naturally.

Breeding out broodiness doesn't eliminate broodiness, it lessens it. When a hen is broody, she is not laying and therefore is less productive. Even the breeds that are rarely broody still have the ability to hatch eggs naturally, while maintaining their ability to crank out the most eggs possible.

In today's world of over population. The constant threat off war (EMP weapons) and the daily threat of solar flairs that could knock out power to countries or the entire planet. I know this is worse case possible but if it were to happen we would lose these breeds.

Why do breeders put so much emphasis on egg laying when there are commercial breeds available?

Breeders, good ones, anyway, put emphasis on egg laying (production) because it is one of the desirable qualities of the heritage breeds. Lets face it, dual purpose means eggs and meat, and that is important, and exactly what you are looking for. Commercial birds are cross breeds that are developed to either lay eggs, or provide meat. They are not dual purpose and are not appealing to the average non-commercial breeders. They are also not heritage.......by a long shot.

Especially when all you have to do is lock a broody outside for the day or two during day light hours and she snaps out of it.

LOL! It is often not that easy. I have had hens that would sit in the corner of the pen (for months) if no other option was available. One broody hen in the flock is endearing, six broody hens in the flock at the same time is maddening!

Try looking for dual purpose breeds that are available from breeders that are selecting for both, not just type. A dedicated, knowledgeable breeder will put the same emphasis on all three qualities.

 

[bnjrob]

Can some one help me with some thing. I've been looking to ad more varieties of American dual purpose birds to my flock. I'm looking for birds that lay decent amounts of eggs, meaty and broody, so they hatch their eggs them selves. But it seems most breeders are breading out broodiness. Making people rely on incubators if they want off spring. How are you to sustain any breed they don't have the ability to hatch naturally. In today's world of over population. The constant threat off war (EMP weapons) and the daily threat of solar flairs that could knock out power to countries or the entire planet. I know this is worse case possible but if it were to happen we would lose these breeds. Why do breeders put so much emphasis on egg laying when there are commercial breeds available? Especially when all you have to do is lock a broody outside for the day or two during day light hours and she snaps out of it.

I will give my shameless plug for Javas as an American-class, dual purpose breed. They handle the humid heat of Texas, the drier heat of Arizona, as well as the cold of Minnesota and Maine. As a general rule, they lay about every other day to every couple of days - even when we just had a half dozen hens laying, we had way more than enough eggs to feed two people. Overall they lay medium to large eggs, some of ours lay extra large on occasion. When butchering runts, I usually get a decent sized carcass weighing around 4 lbs which is generally more than one meal for two people and I still have some left over for other things as well as making broth from the bones. Have not yet butchered full SOP weighted birds since they take a bit to fully mature, so don't know how much their carcass ends up weighing, but have gotten a little over 5 lb carcasses from some of the larger cockerels we've butchered. Our Javas are quite broody - I'm surprised I was even able to hatch this year with the number of hens, and even pullets, going broody. Have three more that went broody just this week. After having a broody pullet squish a lone chick a couple of years ago, have not allowed any of the broodies to raise chicks - didn't want to risk it until we had built up our foundation breeding flock more - but have had several people report good outcomes with letting their Javas hatch and raise their own chicks.

Totally understand where you're coming from as far as what you're wanting in a bird - we are slowly working on homesteading activities that can be done without the use of modern conveniences since it can just take a bad storm to knock out power and retail food supplies. Our Javas still need work as far as having more of them meet more of the SOP criteria consistently, and we are still working on improving aspects of egg and meat production, but we've been so happy with our Javas that we are also working with them for preservation and not just our own food supply. They really are terrific even if they are not very popular.

 

[gjensen]

I will use my Catalanas as an example.

They are very good layers, laying about 5 large to extra large eggs per week. I get a few Jumbo sized eggs per week.

They do not eat the qty. that the other heavy breeds that I have owned have. Confined they eat about 25% less, and when allowed to range all day, there is a larger difference. They tolerate confinement well, but when allowed to range they do not come back except to roost. They will make a trip or two back to the coop in the winter. They are very active, and range far and wide. They are not "needy" birds.

They do go broody, but they are not excessively broody. I am seeing about 30% go broody. About five for every sixteen hens, to give an idea. There is enough variability to take them one way or another. I could also convince more to set. I would prefer to see them as they are. Those that do commit, make excellent mothers. I do not want the entire flock to go broody, but if I changed my mind, I could go in that direction.

The point is that there are breeds and strains that could be considered more sustainable. Many of them are older breeds, and breeds that are not particularly popular. IMO, many of the most sustainable breeds are the least popular.

To speak frankly, for a setting like you describe, much of what interests us would end up being considered a waste. Heavy eaters, excessively large, and excessively feathered birds might be considered a waste. I imagine that lighter framed, more active breeds would suddenly become more interesting. Birds that would be less nutritionally needy. The number one concern would be the qty of feed that the birds ate, and whether or not they could thrive with less input. Eggs would be the reason we kept the birds, and the flesh would be a by product and a seasonal luxury. The landscape would look much different. That is if we did not have access to bagged rations, and we could not grow all of their feed in addition to our own.

Sustainability only goes so far without a large amount of resources.

Personally, I prefer to not to worry about the worst and enjoy my birds. I do enjoy considering the practicality of it all.

 

[Big Orp]

Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate your honest answers and opinions.

 

[lualshannon]

Yesterday, Walt Leonard gave a talk at the Santa Rosa, Ca., show about showing birds, how they are judged, as well as feather quality, and conformation. We were able to ask questions, and he replied to each and everyone graciously. It was a great, very interesting, captivating, and educational experience for all who have attended. Thank you, Walt!!

Lual

 

[3riverschick]

what that a Light Sussex he was holding? ( I hope) or a Delaware?
Thanks,
Karen

 

[fowlman01]

what that a Light Sussex he was holding? ( I hope) or a Delaware?
Thanks,
Karen

Delaware. A Del was Res Large Fowl.

w.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Delaware. A Del was Res Large Fowl.

w.

As we have photos, can you tell us what you liked (and maybe didn't like) about those birds? I'm trying to breed Delawares up to the SOP.

 

[har]

That one picture when where Walt is holding the Del. up side down with the back to the camera he is showing that the bird does not have pinched tail. At least what I was thinking. Very good pictures.

Scott

 

[fowlman01]

As we have photos, can you tell us what you liked (and maybe didn't like) about those birds? I'm trying to breed Delawares up to the SOP.

I didn't like the color of some of the tails, but these are pretty well marked and the white area's are free from smut or black markings. The type is very good and in the photo of me holding the bird up you can see the great width of back these very young pullets have. I believe they are 5 months old. They have strong wide heads and deep bodies. The bodies are outstanding. No flat spots on the bottom line and everything where it should be. The color will always be a struggle, but again they are very sound birds.

Walt