Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[DesertChic]

Buying hatching eggs is a crap shoot. If you are wanting to start with good stock, buy chicks or started birds from a reputable breeder, preferably someone who shows. The time and money spent raising and trying to breed up sub par fowl is just not worth it as you can spend years and still not reach your goal. Dick Horstman breeds Silver Grey Dorkings http://horstmanspoultry.com/largefowlhome/silvergreydorking.html
May be too late to get from him this year. Many breeders have a waiting list and don't keep their breeding stock together all year long.
I know nothing about this breed and wouldn't begin to guess if there is potential in these or not, but you might as well cut the heads off the ones with only 4 toes now.

Thanks for the info. I did try to get breeder stock but couldn't find any that were selling. I'll definitely check in with Dick Horstman so that I can perhaps start over again next year. I won't be cutting off any heads any time soon though. I may not use the birds in my breeding program but I'll still keep them for eggs and/or meat.

Just a note: your bands look like they need to be changed.

Also, regarding the lack of fertility, that should be something the "breeder" should guarantee. I realize shipping them changes everything but there should be some signs of life at some point to verify fertility.

Thanks for the note, but I changed out their bands right after I finished weighing and photographing each chick.

Quote:
Thanks, Angela. It's nice to have someone else familiar with the breed to empathize with.

This was the first breed I'd seriously looked at when I started keeping chickens but it's been nearly impossible to locate a breeder who was selling eggs or stock. I know from @gjensen that to really do the breed service I need to hatch hundreds of chicks and cull heavily, but I'm not really equipped to operate at that level right now. My goals with this breed are currently much smaller. I'd like a small flock of them that I can breed and sustain and improve as much as possible within the limitations of my property and lifestyle. Right now I've got about 40 chickens on my property with another two dozen set to hatch in a week. That's a lot for me! In the future as my experience increases I may or may not decide to go whole hog with this breed, but not right now. These first two batches were supposed to be my introduction to my coveted breed. I'll see what I can do with this batch and adjust my plans accordingly as I move forward.

 

[Wisher1000]

I want to second what Neo'crazy said about the colors. I have noticed that once I started crossing lines of Silver Campines, the chicks pop out with all sorts of strange markings and colors (fascinating and intriguing hints as to the hidden genetic backgrounds.) "Normal" Silver Campine chicks look like this.....

(photo by debs_flock)

I have gotten nearly solid chicks, some with chipmunk stripes, and everything in between, but that most of them are decidedly more uniform by 3 weeks and most are as close to standard as the normal colored chicks once fully feathered. I have also found that some of the apparently major issues actually get better after the first molt. For example, I have had a couple of chicks with enough black ticking in their hackle feathers that they looked gray as juveniles, but after their first molt, the hackles grew back much whiter and clearer than I would have guessed.

(my photo)

 

[fowlman01]

Buying hatching eggs is a crap shoot. If you are wanting to start with good stock, buy chicks or started birds from a reputable breeder, preferably someone who shows. The time and money spent raising and trying to breed up sub par fowl is just not worth it as you can spend years and still not reach your goal. Dick Horstman breeds Silver Grey Dorkings http://horstmanspoultry.com/largefowlhome/silvergreydorking.html
May be too late to get from him this year. Many breeders have a waiting list and don't keep their breeding stock together all year long.
I know nothing about this breed and wouldn't begin to guess if there is potential in these or not, but you might as well cut the heads off the ones with only 4 toes now.

Some of these looks like they could have rose combs.

Walt

 

[gjensen]

Chick color is relevant, but not necessarily an indicator of what they will color in to be as adults.

I think more in terms of qty, of eggs per breeding hen. I can adjust to only hatching from a single family in a given season. I can also do spring and fall hatches, where there is not as many at one single time. There is some flexibility in how we go about our business. This is not a description of what I do, but are options that I have.

60 birds at a time is plenty. Divided by three breeds, and it is not much at all if it includes chicks.

It is an unfortunate reality that many rare breeds and/or rare varieties do require more attention than some other more established breeds or varieties. That does not mean that we cannot enjoy them still. If we are selecting to improve, and given what we have, it does not take long to figure out what they will require. Some require more than we are willing to devote to them, and some not as much. These are personal decisions.

In some of the more rare birds, it can be a challenge of it's own just to establish a respectable flock. That is a worthy goal all on it's own.

I do believe in numbers, but there are different ways to accomplish that. 32 in the spring, and 32 in the fall is still 64 put on the ground. If that provides a couple trios or quads, that is progress.
The whole flock does not have to be replaced yearly. One family per year or season is still moving along. Numbers do not have to mean large numbers at a particular point in time, and can mean along the way.

With difficult projects, it does help to separate ourselves from other distractions.

The less selection points, the faster the more sure the progress. A single colored variety makes the effort much simpler.

Do as you please and enjoy them. What I say are just my opinions. The place(s) I have come to.

 

[Lacy Blues]

It is an unfortunate reality that many rare breeds and/or rare varieties do require more attention than some other more established breeds or varieties. That does not mean that we cannot enjoy them still. If we are selecting to improve, and given what we have, it does not take long to figure out what they will require. Some require more than we are willing to devote to them, and some not as much. These are personal decisions.

In some of the more rare birds, it can be a challenge of it's own just to establish a respectable flock. That is a worthy goal all on it's own.

With difficult projects, it does help to separate ourselves from other distractions.

The less selection points, the faster the more sure the progress. A single colored variety makes the effort much simpler.

This is where I have been for a number of years. I haven't bred a single bird yet (or 3) that would make me cull the rest and base all my breeding focus from. I'm looking forward to that day... I've made progress and am super happy to report it. The birds are looking better and better each year.

If I get enough of them that are so much better, I will be tempted to cull the majority and finally be able to focus my efforts over a small group. Gotta see how they grow up.

 

[gjensen]

This is where I have been for a number of years. I haven't bred a single bird yet (or 3) that would make me cull the rest and base all my breeding focus from. I'm looking forward to that day... I've made progress and am super happy to report it. The birds are looking better and better each year.

If I get enough of them that are so much better, I will be tempted to cull the majority and finally be able to focus my efforts over a small group. Gotta see how they grow up.

I would like to see those pullets again at about 20wks.

You have a double whammy. Rare and neglected, and a difficult color. These kinds of projects can be a life time's work, as you know. How many years have you had yours?

 

[Lacy Blues]

This is my eleventh year George.

 

[Wisher1000]

GJ is right. I have been "working on" getting started for 5 years. I got my first "standard" Silver Campines in April 2013 after having looked for breeders (or any other sources and having little luck) for the 2 years prior to that. I located four (4) people who had Silver Campines (none of which were concentrating on them.) They were located in Minnesota, California, Texas and South Carolina.

I got my first ones from Cathy Gleason (TX) who brought me a pair and a spare of her's to a show in Moulton, Alabama. Before I could start hatching eggs, a hawk took the hen, leaving me with two roosters.

Next, I arranged to drive to Ohio in November to meet the breeder from Minn. at the 2013 Ohio Nationals and pick up two trios. A week before the trip, he called to say that one of the roosters had side sprigs and he would only be bringing one trio. I insisted on still getting the two hens that were promised and the other trio to make my trip worthwhile. He agreed and I brought home five. The first night they spent in my possession, my dog broke into the pen and killed a hen, maimed another, and the rooster had run away into the woods (he came back the next day.)

I "started" with three roosters and three hens, one of which had to be separated to convalesce for several months. The Minn, hens were in rough shape and only produced eighteen eggs (combined) the first spring. They had fowl mites, worms, scaly leg mites and were slightly roach backed. I began conditioning them and though they began to look much better, they still weren't laying well and I had decided they must be too old. I managed to hatch a couple of dozen from a 1/2 Campine hen (sired by a Gleason rooster and a Silver Laced Wyandotte) and about 15 of the eighteen eggs. I drove to Shreveport LA to meet and swap some with Cathy. I gave her the Minn. rooster, a Minn,/Gleason cockerel, and about seven of the pullets I had produced. She gave me three silver cockerels, four silver hens, and a gold pullet.

That was last summer. I made contact with a breeder in Massachusetts in the early fall and in November 2014, Cathy and I went back to Ohio and each picked up a nice rooster from him. I was supposed to take him some pullets, but a coon took all the extras and I only had my best hens left. I couldn't wait to start hatching in the spring of this year and hatched between 100 and 125 Campine chicks! Cathy and I are planning another swap this summer and I am planning to take some hens back to Ohio (if they have the show) to give the man from Mass.

The cockerels

The up and coming chicks (with some Ameraucanas mixed in.)

Mostly silvers....

Some of the Goldens....

I am excited to watch these young birds grow up and fill out. The oldest ones, hatched in January and February, had been separated by gender and again, a dog got in and killed all of the pullets. I have a dozen cockerels that are 4 -5 months old and two or three make my toes curl when I look at them. I will be selecting the best 10 or so hens and the best two roosters to keep and use next spring. I may also raise a few more from my current breeders this fall, depending on which combinations produce the best offspring.

I still don't think I have started "breeding" since the P1 stock was all someone else's line. Next year, when I choose the P1 birds from those crosses and produce the F1 generation, I will call them "my line." THEN I will feel like a breeder and will take responsibility for their progress, both good and bad.

My goal is to devote enough work and time in breeding them to the standard to see an obvious improvement in the overall bird. Then to produce enough good birds to share them with some youth and hopefully to get some young people interested in breeding them and continuing to improve the breed.

ETA: Those are terrible representations of my place! It is really not that junky. The sack had some scraps on it to keep them out of the dirt and the wire is a tomato basket I use to keep the goats out of the chicken feed during the day. I use a bungee cord and close the coop door on the cage. The chickens can climb through, the goats can't. The Hav-a-Hart trap was just brought in to repair and take back to the woods.

 

[Lacy Blues]

I think I would be killing some dogs!

 

[hellbender]

I think I would be killing some dogs!