Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[brahmabreeder]

Would keeping track of weights on a weekly basis be beneficial? I was wondering if being able to see the weights at every point and then what size bird that leaves me with in the end would work for being able to cull small birds the next season. This way I don't feed them to maturity and realize it won't even be worth keeping them. If I tracked the weights of all birds hatched and then trio'd them up for breeding I could then compare their growing weights to their offspring and see how they compare. Then as I do this year to year I could then compare to their "grandparents." Would this even work or would it be like everything else and just have too many variables to even work? I was also thinking this might be beneficial in getting birds that matured faster.

 

[thedragonlady]

I have used those ceramic heat bulbs and they work very well. They have a life much longer than a light bulb, IME.

You could also try what dragonlady does... make sleeping boxes for your birds to all pile into to keep each other warm. When I get mine built, its going to be basically a 3 sided box with an open top and enough of a fourth wall to keep a pile of shavings in. That way, there shouldn't be any issues with frostbite or drafts or moisture... hopefully.

Warm air rises. I would not want open tops on sleeping boxes.In a cold climate, you will get frostbite on the males' combs. We've been in the low 20s here, and I've had to close the poop doors to keep my boys' heads inside.I have a huge cockerel who likes to sleep in the poop door way, and keep watch. With the door shut, he's been snuggling with his girls. His dad, Monty, always snuggles, so no problem with his comb.

No problem with moisture in my sleeping boxes. I pick, and fluff the deep straw every day. It stays clean, and dry with Sweet PDZ under it.

 

[cybercat]

In winter I pile on bedding real deep so it starts composting to make heat for the coop. Moisture is what causes frostbite and the top of all our coops are open 2 to 4 inches under eves. This helps get rid of the wet air. We have been having real cold night temps here in the teens. In the 6 years I have been breeding our chickens I have yet to have a case of frostbite and they free range in the snow too. I use cat litter boxes for nest boxes and we now have a outside of coop community nest box. Girls loved the latter earlier this year but now are using the in coop boxes as they are warmer.

 

[ronott1]

Before I put the lights in, I had comb frost bite issues a couple of years ago. Poor males. I felt so sorry for them. I tried turning the lights off but got bruised combs from the cold. They went away when I turned the lights back on. So I am erring on the side of caution. I guess I could put a ceramic heat emitter bulb in there , but they are expensive. Excepting that, I haven't found a way to keep frostbite at bay without a 60 watt light on 24/7 from freeze to thaw.

I have used those ceramic heat bulbs and they work very well. They have a life much longer than a light bulb, IME.

You could also try what dragonlady does... make sleeping boxes for your birds to all pile into to keep each other warm. When I get mine built, its going to be basically a 3 sided box with an open top and enough of a fourth wall to keep a pile of shavings in. That way, there shouldn't be any issues with frostbite or drafts or moisture... hopefully.

Some that live in cold places put in a Ceramic or red light for heat and a regular white light on a timer to get them 14 hours of light a day for egg laying.

For Breeding, The K(Rooster) needs light too.

 

[Fred's Hens]

THanks Walt for the clarification.

I had the SOP on my Christmas wish list last year but DH didn't look at my list. THIS year I emailed him my list-- with only one item on it: SOP.

Just noticed in the APA newsletter that the SOP is available as a Christmas Special for $59.
And….. if I understood correctly, the shipping is included.

 

[fowlman01]

Would keeping track of weights on a weekly basis be beneficial? I was wondering if being able to see the weights at every point and then what size bird that leaves me with in the end would work for being able to cull small birds the next season. This way I don't feed them to maturity and realize it won't even be worth keeping them. If I tracked the weights of all birds hatched and then trio'd them up for breeding I could then compare their growing weights to their offspring and see how they compare. Then as I do this year to year I could then compare to their "grandparents." Would this even work or would it be like everything else and just have too many variables to even work? I was also thinking this might be beneficial in getting birds that matured faster.

Keeping track of weights and other important things you notice is always a good idea. The tighter your records of the birds are the better you can predict outcomes.

Walt

 

[RiddleMe]

THanks Walt for the clarification. I had the SOP on my Christmas wish list last year but DH didn't look at my list. THIS year I emailed him my list-- with only one item on it: SOP.

Just noticed in the APA newsletter that the SOP is available as a Christmas Special for $59.
And….. if I understood correctly, the shipping is included.

That's correct, I ordered one as a Christmas gift about a week ago and final total was $59.

 

[gjensen]

Absolutely do not pay attention to dates listed.

Hendersons does not give a date for POL but does give guidelines for when they Mature. For example, Leghorns says extremely early maturing. They will lay eggs as early as 16 weeks. Then Brahmas says Slow Maturing so they will reach POL after the average for all chickens which is 22 weeks. Very slow maturing would be in the 30 week range.

The descriptions give you a general idea for how long it will take. Like I posted above, it also depends on the time of year.

I get you Ron. That might help someone get an idea what they are looking for when they are starting out.

I have seen hatchery type Rocks start laying at 20wks, and "Heritage" Rocks start at 32 wks. That is almost a three month difference.
I have seen hatchery Reds start at 22 wks, and "heritage" Reds start @ 28 wks. A month and a half difference.
I have had a decent strain of NHs start at an average off 22 wks, and anther good strain start in the 26wk range.

My Catalanas start in the 20wk range. About typical for a Mediterranean breed. Just too much variation from one strain to another.

Then add on the when they hatch, like you said, and management and environmental differences.

I think it is a matter of getting to know your strain. You know when they are hatched, management, and conditions. If you think they need improvement, put pressure on it in the following generations. If you are happy with where they are at, do not worry about it.

These are just opinions that I have.

It is also my opinion that as we breed to the standard we remain mindful of these things. Keeping in mind the role these birds had historically.

 

[3riverschick]

(snipped for brevity) If you think they need improvement, put pressure on it in the following generations. If you are happy with where they are at, do not worry about it.

These are just opinions that I have.

It is also my opinion that as we breed to the standard we remain mindful of these things. Keeping in mind the role these birds had historically.

Yes. Now in Sussex, back then ( pre 1915) folk sold eggs and poultry for a living. We still do, but not on that subsistence level they did back then. It was important for Sussex to be good winter layers for 2 reasons. The price of eggs went up in the late Fall because the summer layers were going into molt. So if your Sussex started laying then, you got a better price for your eggs. Plus that put the hens right on track to be laying in the winter when the breeders wanted chicks which would be fattened and ready for market on Derby Day in England. Their big poultry feasting holiday of the Spring(late May).
Nowadays, we have eggs all year long. Fattened poultry whenever we want it. If our Sussex start laying 45 days later than usual, it's no big deal as long as they are laying for Spring hatch...which can be later than historically because we no long fatten chicks for Derby Day.. we hatch early for Fall shows and chick buyers in March /April/May.
So we do the same things with Sussex but for different reasons. I think that gives us a bit more leeway in the laying cycle of our Sussex while still adhering to the historic purpose of the breed. Yes, I still advocate the historic view that March-hatched Sussex are the best winter layers.
Best,
Karen

 

[TeaChick]

Depends on feeding and management too.

Regardless of breed my goal has always been 6 months for point of lay. On some of the bigger asiatics this is a very difficult goal, and I'll admit to playing favorites with my beloved Langshans and the Brahmas when I had them.

I have a Cochin (Bantam Frizzle) who hatched @ the beginning of March and she's still not laying!!!

ETA: I'm wondering if you have anything to offer about that?
Thanks. =)