Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[rodriguezpoultry]

So, is that pretty common in heritage line birds...late maturity? I'm trying to get a bead on if I even want to go down that road and I'm a little worried about only having 4-5 eggs per week and a hen that doesn't lay until almost a year old....if that is common with heritage breed lines I'm thinking it wouldn't be worth having them as working chickens in a flock. There are no shows in my area and no market for selling high bred but low production birds, so the reasoning behind putting time and money into heritage breeds isn't showing up as practical for the average person.

I've heard from a couple of the OT breeders and they were working for a different result but I'm wondering why everyone isn't working for a better production and early maturing on their birds? That would seem to be better for all purposes but particularly for developing a line.

The production bred birds will not be able to lay nearly as long (or have as long of a productive life) as a heritage breed. You will also lack the size in a production bird, however if you are only needing egg laying birds that pop out eggs every day for 6 months then are ready to start all over again, by all means get a production bird such as a production Leghorn.

Might want to check around though, even Production birds skip an egg every now and then and 4-5 eggs a week from a Leghorn from a hatchery after their 1st year is something that is not normally seen. So, while the production bird loses it's worth after 1 year, the heritage bred bird will, at the earliest, lose their worth as a laying-bird only at about 4 years or more. During which time they would have laid more eggs overall than any production bird.

 

[hellbender]

So you would sell your top of the top birds to someone? Nobody should be selling their best birds. I only sell the birds that I would breed from but have their faults as breeders. Everything else goes as layers as they are pet quality. Only the best of my stock stays with me. I would never sell my best birds to anyone. Probably not for any amount. They are the basis for my future birds and would be worth more to me as a breeding bird that could produce hundreds of chicks than as a bird that would be given may $200. I would never charge anyone that amount for any bird, but if someone offers it...

It's not an art, it takes patience and knowing your breed. Anyone can do it with enough time and vision for their flock.

As for the qualities, if you know your breed and more importantly, the line you have been working with, you can simply know how they will continue to develop. When you start adding in extra lines, that is when you will have more difficulty in seeing the quality of the birds at an earlier age.

I don't sell any birds at all. I sell eggs. I have recently considered letting a trio go to a young person in the coming year but those will be just for the cost of shipment or they can pick them up. Might even donate a few eggs/chicks to FFA for the first time after countless requests. Again...That's just me.

By the way, your ability to fathom or devine how your stock will mature is also amazing, and apparently by simply observing their phenotype. I suppose genetics never plays tricks on you...

You have a wonderful career ahead of you as the head of some genome project....my best wishes.

 

[fowlman01]

Bee
The Heritage birds are not all late developers. These New Hampshire are laying at 5 months and the males could be eaten at 6-7 months. Each strain of a breed could be quite different in how they mature.

Walt

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

I know my line and I know my breed. I'm sure anyone with a working knowledge of genetics or in general, or more overall direction and knowledge as to how how their line works and how they mature, would be able to do the same. It's not a great feat, it's simply knowing how the line progresses in growth.

As for eggs, I do not really ever sell eggs. Too much of a gamble for the buyer on quality of birds that they could hatch. Only a few select people receive eggs and that is after I have talked with them over the course of several months or if they have been waiting for quite some time and warned them repeatedly that while the parents are from show stock and have been shown, there's only a small chance that any of the offspring could be worthy as show quality.

 

[hellbender]

I know my line and I know my breed. I'm sure anyone with a working knowledge of genetics or in general, or more overall direction and knowledge as to how how their line works and how they mature, would be able to do the same. It's not a great feat, it's simply knowing how the line progresses in growth.

As for eggs, I do not really ever sell eggs. Too much of a gamble for the buyer on quality of birds that they could hatch. Only a few select people receive eggs and that is after I have talked with them over the course of several months or if they have been waiting for quite some time and warned them repeatedly that while the parents are from show stock and have been shown, there's only a small chance that any of the offspring could be worthy as show quality.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear....I sell eggs for consumption

But, if I ever do sell any birds, they will be my very best because my name will be forever attached to them.

Edited for grammar.

 

[Piet]

If you can grow out and observe all the birds you hatch with good recordkeeping for a few years you can sure have a better idea of future outcomes, but never guaranteed due to mostly environmental factors, feed, sickness etc. You learn how the birds develop. For instance my Welsummers when they show very good tail angles when they are about 12 weeks or so young, that usually means when they finish those are bad tails, too high. The flat looking young will develop better tails. Back to breeding, well if I know a certain combination produced very well I would repeat that over and over. In fact I have a 5 yr old pair that the hen is laying again and I will set all her eggs. The male looks like a truck hit him at 100 miles/hr, but I know what he is. I could probably not even give him away to the coyotes, but he throws good stock and I am not sure yet if I have one equal to him in breeding value. Actually yes I do have some, but the older birds have just as much or more rights to breeding here.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

ha! That grammar will get us every time! At least you were able to catch it! THAT'S an art that is quickly losing any footing in this world.

I certainly hope that you are able to sell your very best birds once you do decide to sell. I'm sure whoever purchases them will be ecstatic.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Piet,

I've noticed the same in my Langshans. I get nervous when I see a tail come up at 4 months. By about the 6th month, that tail will be entirely too high. All of the best birds I have ever produced will have the flat tails until 6 months or longer and then those tails and backs come together to make the U shape.

Loving your description of that male! Sometimes you get those random birds that are more than worth their weight in feed!

 

[Texasmja]

So, is that pretty common in heritage line birds...late maturity? I'm trying to get a bead on if I even want to go down that road and I'm a little worried about only having 4-5 eggs per week and a hen that doesn't lay until almost a year old....if that is common with heritage breed lines I'm thinking it wouldn't be worth having them as working chickens in a flock. There are no shows in my area and no market for selling high bred but low production birds, so the reasoning behind putting time and money into heritage breeds isn't showing up as practical for the average person.

I've heard from a couple of the OT breeders and they were working for a different result but I'm wondering why everyone isn't working for a better production and early maturing on their birds? That would seem to be better for all purposes but particularly for developing a line.

My BLRW start laying at 7 months and my SLW start laying at 7 1/2 - 8 months.

 

[Piet]

ha! That grammar will get us every time! At least you were able to catch it! THAT'S an art that is quickly losing any footing in this world.

I certainly hope that you are able to sell your very best birds once you do decide to sell. I'm sure whoever purchases them will be ecstatic.

Don't mind my grammar too much please. English is not my native tongue, it is my third best language.