Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[catdaddyfro]

At the Bluebonnet Classic show today I won Best of Breed Wyandotte (White cockerel), Best Variety SLW , Best Variety White Wyandotte. I need to go through the pictures and see what came out. There were some Buff Orps that were HUGE. A pullet won CH English and a Cockerel won Res CH English, Cathy Gleason of Dallas owned the pullet. A RIR cockerel won CH American, and a NH Cockerel won Res American. I can't remember the rest off the top of my head I will have to look at the pictures.

I kinda figured with who was judging it would take a supreme, very correct White Rock to win out over a good Red and I really like that a NH got second. First would have been better IMO but.... LOL

congrats on your Wyandotte placements too, I do like all of them esp the Amer. class birds the BO's are gaining ground on me more an more too

 

[thedragonlady]

I need to dig out my Feeds and Feeding book from my animal science courses I took in college. But, I strongly remember being taught that whole corn, oats and other grains retain more nutrition than processed grain ( cracked, rolled, pelleted). Freshness was also a key factor in nutritional quality. If processed, grain can loose more nutritional value over time, but whole grain keeps its value longer when stored.

Chickens have good ability to grind up and digest whole grains as long as they have access to grit. Therefor they get the full nutritional benifit stored in the whole grain. I feed a commercial grower type ration combined with whole corn, whole oats and other mixed grains/seeds as " treats". I also feed calfmana, limited amounts of grain free cat food as a meat source and small amounts of healthy oils. Laying hens get about the same mixture but I add layer pellets to the grower ration and extra oyster shell. The extra whole grains added to the ration seems to be working very well for my flock.

Trisha

It is quite true that sometimes whole grains supply more nutrients to a bird's diet. We are talking about HEAT generation here.The crop generates gas, which produces heat, in trying to digest the hulls of whole grains.That's the reason to add those whole grains in the evening.

 

[tls_ranch]

I need to dig out my Feeds and Feeding book from my animal science courses I took in college. But, I strongly remember being taught that whole corn, oats and other grains retain more nutrition than processed grain ( cracked, rolled, pelleted). Freshness was also a key factor in nutritional quality. If processed, grain can loose more nutritional value over time, but whole grain keeps its value longer when stored.


Chickens have good ability to grind up and digest whole grains as long as they have access to grit. Therefor they get the full nutritional benifit stored in the whole grain. I feed a commercial grower type ration combined with whole corn, whole oats and other mixed grains/seeds as " treats". I also feed calfmana, limited amounts of grain free cat food as a meat source and small amounts of healthy oils. Laying hens get about the same mixture but I add layer pellets to the grower ration and extra oyster shell. The extra whole grains added to the ration seems to be working very well for my flock.


Trisha

It is quite true that sometimes whole grains supply more nutrients to a bird's diet. We are talking about HEAT generation here.The crop generates gas, which produces heat, in trying to digest the hulls of whole grains.That's the reason to add those whole grains in the evening.

I agree with you on heat generation. I also was pointing out possible nutritional benefits to feeding chickens whole grains. Although other animals would benefit more from processed grains. Whole corn and oats pass right through my dogs, LOL. Since I live in northern CA, the added heat from digestion process isn't a top priority for me in winter. It was nearly 70 degrees here today with forest/ wildfires starting up in January.

Trisha

 

[ronniewayne]

At the Bluebonnet Classic show today I won Best of Breed Wyandotte (White cockerel), Best Variety SLW , Best Variety White Wyandotte. I need to go through the pictures and see what came out. There were some Buff Orps that were HUGE. A pullet won CH English and a Cockerel won Res CH English, Cathy Gleason of Dallas owned the pullet. A RIR cockerel won CH American, and a NH Cockerel won Res American. I can't remember the rest off the top of my head I will have to look at the pictures.

great job .. I went and saw your birds so impressed with their size and type color wow ..

 

[neopolitancrazy]

I would like to endorse the whole grains recommendations, as a source of superior nutrition. The essential fatty acids and fat soluble vitamins are better preserved in whole grains than in cracked/ground feed. Feed degrades when the nutrients are exposed to air and heat. Also, "birdseed" is not Roundup Ready, and some believe GMO grain is lower in protein than traditional grains. I am convinced this superior nutrition produces an animal with superior resilience, better able to cope with environmental stress. I do not understand how a little fermentation in a small, superficial sack on a non-ruminant's chest will significantly affect the aforementioned non-ruminant's core temperature.
Just my humble but honest opinion.
Angela

 

[hellbender]

Hear hear, This is all reminiscent of the now defunct League of Nations, only to be replaced by an equally ill-informed and totally impotent group called The United Nations. All bluster and no real standing.

edited: To say, I'm just having a bit of fun...meaning no harm...just being silly.

 

[hellbender]

It is quite true that sometimes whole grains supply more nutrients to a bird's diet. We are talking about HEAT generation here.The crop generates gas, which produces heat, in trying to digest the hulls of whole grains.That's the reason to add those whole grains in the evening.

 

[thedragonlady]

I agree with you on heat generation. I also was pointing out possible nutritional benefits to feeding chickens whole grains. Although other animals would benefit more from processed grains. Whole corn and oats pass right through my dogs, LOL. Since I live in northern CA, the added heat from digestion process isn't a top priority for me in winter. It was nearly 70 degrees here today with forest/ wildfires starting up in January.

Trisha

For years I bought whole oats and corn for my horses and cattle.All these grains were run through my oat roller. We called the racket that machine made the horse and cattle caller.By buying whole grains,you are able to see the quality of those grains, and mixing my own feed let me adjust protein and fat levels to a horse's work schedule.When you run good clean oats through a roller,the resulting squashed oats are oily, and smell fresh. Corn is flattened into what looks like raw cornflakes, and is also very oily. If you let those rolled grains sit for even 12 hours, they are no longer oily, nor do they smell fresh.Lots of the vitamins have oxidized.

Horses do not digest whole grains well. If fed whole corn, a lot will pass right through them. Chickens do digest them well due to their gizzards,if they have access to grit, so they get the full benefit of those grains.

In sunny SC,the forecast is for 13 degrees for the next 2 nights. Most unusual cold for us. You can bet that my birds will go to roost with crops full of oats, BOSS,and bird seed.



Oops, now they are calling for 10 degrees. Pick a number ?

 

[hellbender]

I copied the following from my FB account.


Folks, if you need help figuring out how to protect your outdoor pets this week, please let us know. Tuesday's wind chill is predicted to reach -42. That's 42 BELOW ZERO. No fur will protect an animal from this extreme cold. If you care for feral cat colonies, get straw and boxes to provide them with insulation. If you need help, let us know asap. Otherwise, PLEASE BRING YOUR OUTDOOR DOGS AND CATS INSIDE. We are here to help you help the animals of Randolph county. Thank you.



EDIT: Weather forecast just said wind chill factors could drop to below minus 50 in higher elevations. It will be cold enough for me here, in my little mountain valley.

I hope everyone who is facing these prospects are able to take care of their birds. Mine are out, enjoying the relative warmth but I won't even be opening doors tomorrow or Tuesday. I bought several heads of cabbage that I hang in the houses to keep them busy while in 'lock-down'.

 

[gjensen]

There is no question that whole grains supply all of the available nutrition, and when ground or cracked they lose some of that nutrition. Still freshly ground or cracked grains offers the same, and what is there is more available. It is not as if it all magically disappears as soon as it is ground. It just loses faster once the external protection has been broken, so time in storage is the issue. I do not but cracked corn for this reason. Only that I do not know how long ago it was cracked. I buy whole corn.

It is true that old heirloom varieties of corn had more protein. They also did not produce nearly as much though. The benefit of corn is the energy content, not it's protein content. We are much better at producing corn for what we need it than we used to be. If you were growing your own corn maybe a few% more protein is a benefit, if it is worth the cost of twice the area planted. If I am buying it, it is more efficient to pay 7.00 for 50lbs than 15.00 for 50lbs. I would rather spend the extra money on something much better at contributing protein and higher quality protein.

I think we have the safest and most efficient food production in the world. To a point where we all eat like Kings. I suspect if we had to live at a different time or in a different place, we would appreciate it more. I feel as if we are a bit spoiled.

I am in the middle on the GMO thing. I do not have an issue with playing geneticist in the lab. We have been playing with and manipulating plants and animals for our use for thousands of years. We have come a long ways because of it. If it is more efficient to do it in the lab (plants), then so be it. Where I get uncomfortable is when genes from different species are put together. That is my personal draw the line. If corn genes are mixed with corn, I am ok. We have done that in the field for a long time, so if they do it n the lab, I am ok. I just do not like cross species manipulation.
So to sum that idea up, for me genetic modification is an ancient practice. We do it every generation. We just do not cross chickens with Turkey Vultures.

I cannot do any better than the available commercial rations. If I could do it better or equally as well, and spend the same or less . . . I would. Until then I will get a quality bagged ration. I will let them range as much a I can, and throw them some whole grains. The whole grains to work those gizzards (something the commercial rations does not do) and as a management tool.

Concerning the bird seed, I think a little bit is good. It adds variety and bulk. Then it depends on the bird seed mix. A little red millet is good, but too much is detrimental because of the anti nutrient qualities. The same with sorghum.

And I still do not buy the whole grain in the cold idea. I think that is one of those things that has been passed down that we have come to believe with no actual proof. That stuff was started when birds did not get the rations that they do now. The benefit would have been giving them a higher energy ration. More energy is required to stay warm. The more nutritious the ration is, the better able the birds will withstand the cold. I think that the birds would be better for us spending that time and energy ensuring the birds have adequate shelter. Good shelter is what these bird are going to need to withstand -40 wind chills. Those temperature extremes are going to put the housing to the test, not the feed.

I am just sharing the conclusions that I have come to, understanding that there is a variety of view points, ideals, and ideas.