Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[gjensen]

Well I am done on this thread for while. I think I need to spend some time elsewhere for while.
Everyone has their opinions. I prefer to see what's in the genotype before I judge. I know
phenotype is said to mirror genotype. I also know poultry have a slew of sex linked genes
which make the genotype less clear in
the phenotype than say dogs or cats.
Best,
Karen

Karen, I would not sweat any of it. As far as what you do on your place, it is not anyone's business anyways. Everyone has opinions, but none of them matter other than your own.

I also do not think anyone meant a dig at the breed or your thoughts. Many do not like the business that you would deal with.

Personally, I have no problem with how the business operates. I also do not have a problem with a bunch of new exotic breeds coming here. Most of the breeds we have here were imported at some point. It is not as if they were here when we got here. When poultry interest is up there is a demand for the new and exotic. Now it is under the label rare. It is just part of the natural ebb and flow of things. When I read the old poultry ads, I see a lot of hype and salesmanship in them to.

A lot of this exotic new stuff will disappear with time, and then some might stick around for a bit.

I am not a big fan of the hype either. Nothing is what it seams to be. The crazy prices kill me, but . . . Kind of turns into a pyramid scheme. Everyone starts buying in, and in the end, the birds are worth what birds are generally worth. Not a whole lot.

Just look at the birds like this. What do they have that yours do not? Would they be worth the money to help your own? Would they help you or hurt you or both? Nothing wrong with trying something on the side, but consider the costs. I would review all of my options. in the end it will not matter where they are from or who's names are attached. They will either good Sussex or not.
If you think it would be worth the cost to try them on the side, then go for it. It is your yard and your money.

Personally, I am rooting for you with the Sussex. I like the breed. I always have. I like your enthusiasm, and your interest in the breed history and what they should be. Frankly, I have only seen a few people on this site that even has an idea of what a good Sussex is.

If you stick it out over a decade, people will be attaching your name to their birds.

 

[ocap]

Well I am done on this thread for while. I think I need to spend some time elsewhere for while.
Everyone has their opinions. I prefer to see what's in the genotype before I judge. I know
phenotype is said to mirror genotype. I also know poultry have a slew of sex linked genes
which make the genotype less clear in
the phenotype than say dogs or cats.
Best,
Karen

I agree with Karen, anything that we can do to preserve a breed should be considered including buying from an importer who charges ten times what a normal chicken is worth. "ozexpat" has a thread on what he has had to do to get chickens into the Philippines, Greenfire prices might be OK considering what it is like to deal with the government of the USA.
"kicking the can down the road" to the land of the preserved heritage sussex

 

[gjensen]

Preserving a breed is sticking with it over time, and breeding them up instead of down. That is all. It is that simple.

Some of us will not stick with it, and some of us will make a mess. If we make a mess, we should figure our way out of the mess even if it means starting over.

The ones that stick with it, and make progress (even if it is slow progress), are the ones that will make a solid contribution to a breed and the hobby. How a breeder gets there is a breeder's business. I would just suggest reserving experiments or projects for a pen on the side, and know what you have before you make lasting commitments.

If we end up with something that is worth something, then someone else will get a start with what we have.

That is kicking the can down the road.

 

[fowlman01]

My post on the GF Sussex was a judges opinion. It was not meant to make fun of the birds. The lack of bone (a very serious fault) is quite evident in the birds. I really did see birds that look far superior to those at the Hollister show last weekend. The male had size, bone and type. Straight wings and everything else you might want. So. .....there apparently are some good ones here in the US.....at least out here in the west. I can find out who showed them if anyone is interested. chickens are not like dogs, horses etc. Putting lesser specimens into them is a last resort and I certainly would not recommend it. You can read through this thread and you will not find where Bob recommended it either. Putting blood in a breed because it is from another country does not create miracles.

As noted, they are your birds, so do whatever you feel will work.

Walt

 

[capayvalleychick]

I really did see birds that look far superior to those at the Hollister show last weekend. The male had size, bone and type. Straight wings and everything else you might want. So. .....there apparently are some good ones here in the US.....at least out here in the west. I can find out who showed them if anyone is interested.

This is a lousy cell phone (not the best) photo of him. He really was impressive.

 

[BGMatt]

This is a lousy cell phone (not the best) photo of him. He really was impressive.

What an impressive bird. Is that one of Bridget's? Looks very solid.

 

[thedragonlady]

This is a lousy cell phone (not the best) photo of him. He really was impressive.

Thanks for posting this bird. What a difference ! What a nice, solid bird .

 

[thedragonlady]

I honestly don't have any real opinion of the birds in question because I know nothing about the breed and care less. However, having yet to attend my first poultry show, I'm learning a bunch.

For example, most of my experience with exhibiting animals has been with dogs and I learned to schmooze with the best of 'em and I was quite successful for a number of years...

Another point that I find striking...If an AKC or UKC judge came onto a public forum and voiced an opinion about anyone's dogs, good or bad, their next assignment would be parking cars at the events and or cleaning out 'pit stop' areas.
This is certainly not aimed at anyone in particular because I've seen what I would consider equally egregious statements by several APA judges on this board so I'm left to assume that unlike other exhibition venues, the judges can get down and dirty with everyone else.

If I were a judge, I would certainly check out this wonderful board but the only sign of me would show up as 'guest'....but that's just me.

Old Mastiff breeder here. .... In the US judges rarely show. If they do, they use a handler, who then cannot show anything to that judge/owner . Different ball game in the UK, where the judges show one weekend, and exhibit the next.There are also written critiques in the UK for nearly every show.Some aren't worth much, such as, "Fido was not his usual jolly self today", but a few are.This is a learning thread. We need all the experienced judges and breeders we can get.

Walt never gets "down and dirty", but if you ask for his opinion, you will get it, not some sugar coated answer.Thank heavens !

 

[warbirds]

And I know nothing about SQ Dark Red Naked Necks and Black Australorps
so I guess we are even. I like the Australops a lot, but don't quite understand
the logic behind the Naked Necks. Guess it is to keep them cool in hot climates?
Best,
Karen

Hi Karen!
According to my research, the Naked Neck was developed for easier production. They have less feathers than most large fowl, making them easier to process for the table. Add in their excellent egg production, and you have the nearly perfect farm bird. The lack of feathers does help keep them cool when it hits those century mark temperatures, but they are also quite comfortable in the winter weather. Pick one up on a single degree winter day and it will warm your hands pronto! We've kept them here for many years, as they are reliable layers, and more winter hardy than many other popular farm breeds. Very calm, gentle giants, attitudes much like the Sussex - laid back and willing to work for a living.
Doc

 

[hellbender]

Old Mastiff breeder here. .... In the US judges rarely show. If they do, they use a handler, who then cannot show anything to that judge/owner . Different ball game in the UK, where the judges show one weekend, and exhibit the next.There are also written critiques in the UK for nearly every show.Some aren't worth much, such as, "Fido was not his usual jolly self today", but a few are.This is a learning thread. We need all the experienced judges and breeders we can get.

Walt never gets "down and dirty", but if you ask for his opinion, you will get it, not some sugar coated answer.Thank heavens !

I didn't mention Walt's name. I'm familiar with European, South American regulations as well as a couple countries in SE Asia, having exhibited in a few FCI World Shows. Didn't mention that because I didn't want to seem ostentatious.