Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[finnfur]

Now that is interesting. There is a lot of conflicting information on this, and I have come to understand otherwise. I have went with it, because my eggs have candled clear by ten days.

Why do you think that is? I have checked this two different times.

Humm ! we been at 7 days ,10,14&30 LOL - But candle the eggs till clear - good thinking but can there be a hold out sperm that appears later ? Just asking .

 

[gjensen]

No can of worms to me. Just simply biological facts. Some things don't take a rocket scientist to figure out. lol.

No it is not rocket science, but there is a lot of conflicting information out there. Difficult to sort through it all sometimes. A lot of myths, wives tales, general bs, conflicting studies.

You hear one experienced breeder say this, and another that. Both are sharp, but they both cannot be right.

Then you think you have it, and along the way find out that you were wrong.

You would think that an animal that we have kept for thousands of years would have been figured out by now.

I am getting to the point that I do not believe anyone and just try it out myself.

 

[gjensen]

Humm ! we been at 7 days ,10,14&30 LOL - But candle the eggs till clear - good thinking but can there be a hold out sperm that appears later ? Just asking .

LOL. I do not know. May be a lone ranger tucked back in there.

When Saladin says something, I take it seriously. I am not saying that he is always right. More often than not, he is. One of the few I reliably listen to.

I might have to change. I do not want to set eggs to see every time I switch. I will probably try it again out of curiosity though.

I think we are discussing the largest possible range, not the most likely result.

 

[ronott1]

No it is not rocket science, but there is a lot of conflicting information out there. Difficult to sort through it all sometimes. A lot of myths, wives tales, general bs, conflicting studies.

You hear one experienced breeder say this, and another that. Both are sharp, but they both cannot be right.

Then you think you have it, and along the way find out that you were wrong.

You would think that an animal that we have kept for thousands of years would have been figured out by now.

I am getting to the point that I do not believe anyone and just try it out myself.

Saladin was giving us information from Poultry Studies and from Poultry Science. We should all be life long learners.

Some do not like the fact that you can have eggs fertilized by the old rooster after 14 days because they have used this for a lot of years. It is hard to find out that there were likely chicks that had a different sire.

Of course knowing and learning will make future breeding efforts better.

 

[hcammack]

It seams to me the color would be the most challenging. I was thinking when I read this, would no black in the tails make them easier or harder?
It seams to be a challenge in wheaton varieties to get correctly marked tails in the females. I wonder if no black in the female tails is an advantage? I tend to think it is, because getting it right in these varieties (unless it is already well developed), is tough.
I have an interest in wheaton, not because I have birds that are wheaton, but most of the breeds that I have had or have had an interest in are wheaton based.

I looked at your breed's standard this morning, and noticed that lacing in the neck etc. is allowed. Is that a refinement that breeders of this variety actively pursue or not? These two points seam to add to the challenge.

Then I noticed that the under color should be slate. I did not expect that, but should not have surprised me. That must be for the male's color. I also noticed the requirements for the black in the wings. The first two breeds that I am interested in have a similar requirement with the wings, and these two points are part of the black balancing act. Neither of those should have a slate under color, but the tendency to have it is there. The tendency is linked to the quantity of black in the body color, and even linked to the intensity of leg color in my Catalanas. I wish the standard allowed for a little slate in the under color of the back in the Catalanas. That there is no allowance for it, makes the Black tailed Buff with slate legs a little more challenging. I am thinking that along the way, I will have to keep a reserve(s) of color (slate under color) on the side.

The black in the tail has actually become an excepted thing by breeders both in europe and abroad but not sure if it makes it easier or harder. The under color is certainly linked to the black color. The slate color is linked to the color in the males. Haven't had problems with under color knock on wood.

I think my near term goal is to even out the salmon over the back. Plus working on cushion and overall type.

 

[hellbender]

To those who may have been offend by my insensitive posts over the last few days, please accept my heart-felt apology.

RON

 

[saladin]

No it is not rocket science, but there is a lot of conflicting information out there. Difficult to sort through it all sometimes. A lot of myths, wives tales, general bs, conflicting studies.

You hear one experienced breeder say this, and another that. Both are sharp, but they both cannot be right.

Then you think you have it, and along the way find out that you were wrong.

You would think that an animal that we have kept for thousands of years would have been figured out by now.

I am getting to the point that I do not believe anyone and just try it out myself.

Except me... you believe me. lol.

 

[BGMatt]

The black in the tail is actually allowed but not sure if it makes it easier or harder. The under color is certainly linked to the black color. The slate color is linked to the color in the males. Haven't had problems with under color knock on wood.

I think my near term goal is to even out the salmon over the back. Plus working on cushion and overall type.

I hate to contradict, but if you're referring to Salmon Favorelles tail here you might want to double check the standard. Looking at it right now as I type, black is not allowed in female tails, it is to be salmon-brown. There is of course black in the wing primaries and secondaries.

 

[saladin]

Now that is interesting. There is a lot of conflicting information on this, and I have come to understand otherwise. I have went with it, because my eggs have candled clear by ten days.

Why do you think that is? I have checked this two different times.

Candling as you suggested in one post is the best possible way to make sure that the hen is no longer fertile. However, do remember that even a fertile hen can lay a clear egg every now and again. I had this happen just the other week. I always mark the eggs as to the hen and the date collected. I had 3 eggs that were fertile and her 4th egg was not, but the 5th was. Go figure. You know that old saying, 'life happens.' Well, sometimes nature can throw a curve ball even when she's been throwing strikes.

 

[hcammack]

I hate to contradict, but if you're referring to Salmon Favorelles tail here you might want to double check the standard. Looking at it right now as I type, black is not allowed in female tails, it is to be salmon-brown. There is of course black in the wing primaries and secondaries.

You caught my mistake thanks! Totally messed up what I was trying to say. I know that the standard says no black in the tail. But I have yet to see a faverolles female with no black in the tail. Among most breeders it seems pretty accepted that there will always be some black in the females tail. Not sure if that helps the evenness of color over the back of the hen. I imagine that it might affect the males color if there was no black in the females tail. This holds true for birds that I have seen pictures of all over Europe and the US. Every hen has at least some black on here main tail but I guess I should be selecting for less and less. Some of the European birds have faded grey tail coloring. But none I have seen are pure salmon brown. Maybe it is a just an inevitable struggle with the breed.