Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[fowlman01]

. Is this the correct book for standards?

No, it's a black and white copy of a very old Standard.

Walt

 

[lualshannon]

Sharing some pictures of the oldest batch of chicks. Between 6-7 weeks of age. Buff Leghorns and of course the one Blue Langshan (btw in the last picture that bottle is 12" tall, for a sense of scale)

Beautiful! The Langshan has such a stately stance even at such a young age. Lual

 

[gjensen]

I agree. Langshans are good looking birds. I have not been around any in person, but I have seen some pictures of decent ones ranging and they make an attractive flock. Another breed that I think gets overlooked.

Matt, those Leghorns look promising. I will say again that I think that they have been kept in better shape than any other breed. I am remarking on how they are still what they were. Just better. In the more common colors anyways.

 

[LindaB220]

Its taken me many days to read thru this thread. I've found it to be very educational. I've learned a lot.

Years ago, I had a good trio of Red Dorkings. I just couldn't get my project off the ground. I didn't build the right infrastructure for what I needed to do and I didn't have a good grasp of what it would take. I have no history with chickens prior to that. I just decided I wanted chickens tried a few and then decided that Dorkings would fit my climate well. And I liked them. Once I got them I liked them even better!

So now, years later better educated with better infrastructure, I'm starting again.

I have Red Dorking chicks coming in May from Dick Horstman and hatching eggs from a small breeder that should arrive tomorrow. I'm going to have my work cut out for me to get where I want to be. I'm sure these birds will not match up to the trio that I had years ago. They were a very good trio from a very good breeder. I'm going to have to get a copy of the SOP. I had one, its just been shuffled and misplaced or given away. For all I know it went to half price books! Things have a way of disappearing here.

At some point when I start evaluating my chicks I'm going to need help. I would be nice to have a mentor close by, but I don't know if that is possible. I'm certainly not going to find some one well versed in the ins and outs of breeding Dorkings! They seem to be few and far between.

I want a useful bird for my situation. I have a climate that is a challenge and a Dorking should think its back in merry ol' england. My old ones did. My biggest challenge is predators. The only ones I don't have are snakes and other peoples dogs. The worst are the weasels and coy-dogs. I actually like when a cougar is passing thru, everything else clears out. Electric fencing is my friend. My dog is no help. He decided it was wiser to be wary of the elk and coy dogs and be friends with the coyotes. I've threatened to get a guard donkey a few times, but I just have too much water in my soil for any equine to thrive and the cougar would just see it as a tasty morsel.

Right now I have Legbars in my brooder. A friend gave me eggs to hatch and I like those blue eggs. They are a project purely for my amusement. I can do what I want with them. They seem to lack vigor. Something that I see often in imported birds in the early years. Too much emphasis on keeping every bird.
Jennifer

Hi Jennifer,

I have my first chickens coming tomorrow. White Dorkings, Lt. Sussex, New Hampshire and others. from Sandhill. Probably not the quality I'd like but what I can afford this year. Will decide what to choose later for breeding.

 

[Arielle]

Quote:

You are fortunate IMO to have a line that you have kept up for utility purposes, which seems to be a rare thing in my limited experience. I have been looking for a few years ( 2) to find lines that are meat birds. FInding a decent layer is far easier if I"m willing to compromise on the SOP including size.

It is my understanding that the SOP weights can be about a pound more than the standard. A percentage more or less. SOmeone more versed on that can chime in. THis has been discussed at length in the past with a variety of opinions. I also beleive that anyone can interpret the SOP to fit their need= If a bird is not useful then what is the point in my opinion.

My breeding experience comes from breeding horses-- for sporting, not to stand pretty--- functional is number one, with all the parts working together, size and temperament to do the job. And soundness evaluation for OCD and joint swelling to roaring-- and reproductive ability. Stallions with low counts are not selected for breeding. Generally speaking, this criteria is basic to all useful domestic animals as far as I am concerned. No fru-fru- dogs here either-- I"ve had several Rotties.

I realize opinions here on this thread vary from my goals of utility first, but I plan to put my extras on the table for dinner. I figure Bob would be happy that I am eliminating much of my hatchery stock and acquiring breeder stock instead. Hatchery stock is tiny compared to originals for the most part, but often very good layers; When I jumped into chickens 3 years ago I was banking on hatcheries pushing for egg productions primarily and they didnot disappoint. Pretty much pretty egg layers. Most of the people that participate on other threads on BYC have hatchery stock-- a few are learning there is something better. And it would be nice to welcome them to this thread to learn. Unfortunately, I have seen them get slapped down instead. Apparently that is a right of passage to join this thread.

Hellbender-- you don't have hatchery stock.

You have the good meat type I am looking for in a heritage breed.

 

[hellbender]

You are fortunate IMO to have a line that you have kept up for utility purposes, which seems to be a rare thing in my limited experience. I have been looking for a few years ( 2) to find lines that are meat birds. FInding a decent layer is far easier if I"m willing to compromise on the SOP including size.

It is my understanding that the SOP weights can be about a pound more than the standard. A percentage more or less. SOmeone more versed on that can chime in. THis has been discussed at length in the past with a variety of opinions. I also beleive that anyone can interpret the SOP to fit their need= If a bird is not useful then what is the point in my opinion.

My breeding experience comes from breeding horses-- for sporting, not to stand pretty--- functional is number one, with all the parts working together, size and temperament to do the job. And soundness evaluation for OCD and joint swelling to roaring-- and reproductive ability. Stallions with low counts are not selected for breeding. Generally speaking, this criteria is basic to all useful domestic animals as far as I am concerned. No fru-fru- dogs here either-- I"ve had several Rotties.

I realize opinions here on this thread vary from my goals of utility first, but I plan to put my extras on the table for dinner. I figure Bob would be happy that I am eliminating much of my hatchery stock and acquiring breeder stock instead. Hatchery stock is tiny compared to originals for the most part, but often very good layers; When I jumped into chickens 3 years ago I was banking on hatcheries pushing for egg productions primarily and they didnot disappoint. Pretty much pretty egg layers. Most of the people that participate on other threads on BYC have hatchery stock-- a few are learning there is something better. And it would be nice to welcome them to this thread to learn. Unfortunately, I have seen them get slapped down instead. Apparently that is a right of passage to join this thread.

Hellbender-- you don't have hatchery stock.

You have the good meat type I am looking for in a heritage breed.

Well, we certainly agree on the present state of the Rottweiler breed of dogs! I had a good one when there were only two or three breeders advertising in Dog World Magazine, 5 dogs constituted a 'Major' at AKC shows and some folks thought they were enormously obese Dobermanns. I bought my first good one from Friedrich Burger, breed warden in Germany. Different time and certainly a completely different dog than we might see here now.

Let me give you just a bit more information about my birds and you will see why I'm facing a real up-hill battle. These chickens (as the Australorps) have been bred up from what was originally hatchery stock of good size but not quite (perhaps not nearly) so big as they are now. Over time, the birds increased in size and weight as well as longevity and useful life span. However, the only way to make these birds fit to eat (by humans) is to caponize the cockerels at 4 to 6 weeks of age. Otherwise, they are on large frames but the meat quality and quantity has suffered.

As for slapping people down...I hope I'm not included on that list because I try not to victimize anyone nor to allow myself to be denigrated, except in foolishness and frolic...two of my greatest assets or...curses.

 

[NanaKat]

 

Maybe because the Leghorns  have a reputation for being flighty
and not as calm and friendly as other breeds?
Are they as hardy as other Heritage  Large Fowl or do they need coddling in adverse weather?

I think it's all in how you raise them.  They are more active then other fowl certainly, but I would think those that range their birds would see that as an asset, while the "calm friendly" breed is being picked off by the predator it didn't even know was there, the Leghorn is hiding in a bush.  From my point of view as someone who isn't constantly handling my birds, mine are every bit as calm as my other breeds (as adults anyway) so with handling they would calm down even more.

I don't coddle them anymore than my other breeds (which have a reputation as being very cold hardy).  Which is to say nothing at all.  My pens are covered, but are totally open air, even through our coldest weather.  I think there's a lot of myths that go around, and people overcomplicate raising poultry, but that's another discussion. I think the frostbite concern with the Leghorns is partially fabricated due to the tendency of hatchery birds to have oversized combs (Standard calls for a medium comb, and I am sure it was written that way for cold hardiness).  Short answer, the Leghorns are every bit as hardy as any other breed, if your housing lends itself to frostbite though you may want to consider rose comb Leghorns instead of single.

I've only had my oldest hens 18 months & I decided this was the best practice. A hoop coop in WNY was fine for them. No drafts & everything stays dry. The only frost bite was on toes from stepping in water. We got down to -30 for several weeks off & on and all my birds did fine. No heat, no frostbite but very cold hardy birds

My birds housed in open air coops facing south with a partial shield of 1/8 inch thick plastic over that opening fared better thru our roller coaster freezing temps and snow than the birds housed inside the barn brood room. Those inside have had sneezing, watery eyes and swollen sinus. Treatment with amoxycilin has helped, but getting them outside to free range in the sunshine and fresh air works wonders.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: NO-- not you-- sorry it came across that way. I was thinking about writing for the general viewership when I wrote that section and what came before that. Not you. Sorry.

So you are saying that muscling doesn't keep up with the frame and needs time to finish? If not caponized, what age will a typical cckl be freezer ready? 4 months? 6? 10? 12? IF I am understanding the issue-- earlier maturity? Maybe that is different.Perhaps faster muslce growth.

I love the obedience and devotion of the rottie, and the vigilence. When I walk by, an eye opens to verify who is on the move. lol On the other hand my lab would be in a deeep sleep and I could step over. The rotties I learned to step around . . . to step over meant I was suddenly straddling a pony!!! Rotties are not viewed as a friendly dog, so as I have young kids that would like to have freinds over . . . I'm looking at CCR or engish shepards, . . . . or a lab again. Not a bench dog though-- slugs, and getting too broad in the barrel and starting to lack athletic ability. Looking for a breed that will rival a rottie-- my trainer suggested the CCR or curley coated retreiver.

 

[3riverschick]

. Is this the correct book for standards?

No. The retail for this is less than 30.00 The APA SOP sells for 59.00 everywhere. The price is fixed. This is a Hard Press edition. I believe this is a reprinting company. And this edition is a reprint of one of the early SOP's, probably pre 1920. There are several companies out there reprinting the old editions of the APA SOP. They are ignorant that the APA has never let the copyright lapse on the SOP and these republishers are in violation of copyright law. Now AKC let their copyright lapse and all editions of the AKC Stud Book pre 1962 are in the public domain. But the APA SOP? No way.
Best,
Karen

 

[hellbender]

NO-- not you-- sorry it came across that way. I was thinking about writing for the general viewership when I wrote that section and what came before that. Not you. Sorry.

So you are saying that muscling doesn't keep up with the frame and needs time to finish? If not caponized, what age will a typical cckl be freezer ready? 4 months? 6? 10? 12? IF I am understanding the issue-- earlier maturity? Maybe that is different.Perhaps faster muslce growth.

I love the obedience and devotion of the rottie, and the vigilence. When I walk by, an eye opens to verify who is on the move. lol On the other hand my lab would be in a deeep sleep and I could step over. The rotties I learned to step around . . . to step over meant I was suddenly straddling a pony!!! Rotties are not viewed as a friendly dog, so as I have young kids that would like to have freinds over . . . I'm looking at CCR or engish shepards, . . . . or a lab again. Not a bench dog though-- slugs, and getting too broad in the barrel and starting to lack athletic ability. Looking for a breed that will rival a rottie-- my trainer suggested the CCR or curley coated retreiver.

Good dog in general and especially with kids?...Chessie. Hard to find a good one any more but a good one can't be beat!


http://www.animalplanet.com/tv-shows/dogs-101/videos/chesapeake-bay-retriever.htm