Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[Yellow House Farm]

Drangonlady, I've seen your worming schedule; could you post your feeding schedule?

 

[RedRidge]

 
Ok, so following that thought through... what can I do about it?  The standard says that quick feathering is linked to feather quality... unless I'm really misunderstanding it.  If it isn't, what can I do to better the quality of my birds' feathers?  They seem brittle and easily frayed, though I've never made any attempt to verify it.  I don't intentionally go around breaking my birds feathers to test their tensile strength and I don't intentionally rub individual feathers backwards to see how much they can take before the barbicels (or whatever they're called) come detached and stay that way.

Is it diet related or genetic?  I'll be watching my early feathering birds to see how they feather out compared to the others and see where it goes from there but if anybody has any idea as to how to make better feathers, I'm all ears.

I feed my Buff Orps a really good diet, coupled with very good year round grazing. I now have uniformly good feather quality. Yes, I have selected for it, but diet plays a HUGE part in growing really good feathering. I furnish people who buy my birds with my feeding and worming schedule. Most follow it. Some who did not in the past, now do. Yardfullorocks is now using it too, and it pleased with the results. It takes good protein and fat, coupled with an absence of parasites, and crowding, to grow good feathers.

And it's worth noting...
Most commercial poultry feed does not contain enough "animal" protein.
Soy, peas, and other high protein ingredients are no substitute for the quality animal protein required by poultry. Nor can poultry get enough animal protein from fish meal only (unless you want fishy eggs that is).
So when designing customized rations it is critical that plenty of animal protein is included.
I formulate livestock rations for many types of livestock, and this is the single biggest problem people gave when feeding poultry - especially those times when poultry is in breeding pens and free range is not an option.

 

[thedragonlady]

Drangonlady, I've seen your worming schedule; could you post your feeding schedule?

Here it is along with my worming schedule:



Here is my feeding program for my Orps.

All babies get Purina Medicated Chick Starter from day one, until 4 1/2
months old. The little babies also get Quaker Rolled Oats once a day, soaked
in hot water, at 3 days old.

At 4 weeks, the babies go on my grain mix for the big birds, in addition to their
Med. Starter free choice.

I feed whole grains, in addition to their regular ration, to increase
internal organ size.The grains are fed once a day in the evening.

The grain mix is:

1 Part rolled oats
1 part Scratch or Wild Bird seed
1 parts Boss ........ in hot weather, I substitute hulled sun flower seeds. Birds need less fiber when hot.
1 part Calf Manna


All adults have free choice Flockraiser, and oyster shell. I also give them
meat scraps a few times a week. I feed the grains in pans.

All birds are out for at least 4-5 hours a day on good grass. I have centipede grass over seeded with Rye grass, White Dutch Clover, rape and kale in cool weather.Lots of bugs too under my hydrangeas' mulch. Pears to munch on from August-October.

Worming.......MOST IMPORTANT

All babies are wormed with Wazine in their water at 2 + 3 weeks. Wazine is
never used again .

Safeguard 10 % Goat wormer, alternating with Valbazan at 4 weeks, 6,8,10,
12, 14 weeks
1/4 cc at 4,6,8 weeks
1/2 cc at 10,12,14 weeks.

5 mos on...... I check fecals, and worm about 4 times a year with the
Safeguard, or with Valbazan. 1 CC per Big bird over 8 lbs., repeating in
10-14 days.

Coops are sprayed with liquid PERMETHRIN about 4 times a year. Birds are
sprayed, 4 times a year with diluted Permethrin for lice and mites.

If you follow this program, you will raise big, healthy birds. Please
remember that the imported birds have not developed immunity to US bugs, or
parasites.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Here it is along with my worming schedule:



Here is my feeding program for my Orps.

All babies get Purina Medicated Chick Starter from day one, until 4 1/2
months old. The little babies also get Quaker Rolled Oats once a day, soaked
in hot water, at 3 days old.

At 4 weeks, the babies go on my grain mix for the big birds, in addition to their
Med. Starter free choice.

I feed whole grains, in addition to their regular ration, to increase
internal organ size.The grains are fed once a day in the evening.

The grain mix is:

1 Part rolled oats
1 part Scratch or Wild Bird seed
1 parts Boss ........ in hot weather, I substitute hulled sun flower seeds. Birds need less fiber when hot.
1 part Calf Manna


All adults have free choice Flockraiser, and oyster shell. I also give them
meat scraps a few times a week. I feed the grains in pans.

All birds are out for at least 4-5 hours a day on good grass. I have centipede grass over seeded with Rye grass, White Dutch Clover, rape and kale in cool weather.Lots of bugs too under my hydrangeas' mulch. Pears to munch on from August-October.

Worming.......MOST IMPORTANT

All babies are wormed with Wazine in their water at 2 + 3 weeks. Wazine is
never used again .

Safeguard 10 % Goat wormer, alternating with Valbazan at 4 weeks, 6,8,10,
12, 14 weeks
1/4 cc at 4,6,8 weeks
1/2 cc at 10,12,14 weeks.

5 mos on...... I check fecals, and worm about 4 times a year with the
Safeguard, or with Valbazan. 1 CC per Big bird over 8 lbs., repeating in
10-14 days.

Coops are sprayed with liquid PERMETHRIN about 4 times a year. Birds are
sprayed, 4 times a year with diluted Permethrin for lice and mites.

If you follow this program, you will raise big, healthy birds. Please
remember that the imported birds have not developed immunity to US bugs, or
parasites.

Awesome! For clarity. The oats you're giving the chicks, are they just moistens a bit or do you add enough water to create a bit of a porridge?

 

[gjensen]

Here are some opinions. Not facts, just opinions based on some observations.

A good balanced ration settles any feather quality problems concerning diet. I do tend to think that the basic layer and finisher rations are not ideal. They are what they are, basic.

I am not 100% sold on the animal protein/vegetable protein debate. It is the quality of digestible protein and the amino acid profile, not the source necessarily.The better mixes that contain only vegetable protein does have a complete amino acid profile and the protein is quite digestible processed.
I have read some complain of fertility that has been connected to their vegetable based protein feed. If you read through their stuff over the last five years, the same crowd seams to attribute any number of things to the lack of fertility. None of which has anything to do with their decisions or their birds. I bought into it initially, but see no real evidence. Just talk.

I have grown out quite a few birds on some different feeds. I achieved just as good of a finish on Flock Riser by Purina as I did any other. That includes gains and condition. I only saw improvement in hatchability and the size and vigor of the chicks by using a breeder ration, but that mix is formulated for the purpose. I have seen no change in fertility. You can accomplish almost as much by supplementing with some Calf Manna and some sunflower seeds if you wanted to.

I think it depends as much on the quality of the ingredients used as much as it depends on the ingredients themselves. There is any number of mixes when balanced properly will achieve similar results.

I am not certain that the new move to vegetarian feed is rational, but on the other hand is there any real evidence that it has been detrimental to the birds? I mean proof.

If the birds is getting a good ration, and the birds are not burdened by other management problems, then it is genetic. That boils down to us to fix.
It was easy for me to see raising the NHs and Catalanas side by side. Same feed, and same conditions. One had very good feather quality across the board, and the other almost uniformly had poor feather quality. That is something I will have to work on. I am going to try a few things and have no idea where I am going to end up with it in the long run. Unfortunately it is one concern of many.

I think that sometimes when we get stuck, we have to go outside for something to help us fix the problem.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Here are some opinions. Not facts, just opinions based on some observations.

A good balanced ration settles any feather quality problems concerning diet. I do tend to think that the basic layer and finisher rations are not ideal. They are what they are, basic.

I am not 100% sold on the animal protein/vegetable protein debate. It is the quality of digestible protein and the amino acid profile, not the source necessarily.The better mixes that contain only vegetable protein does have a complete amino acid profile and the protein is quite digestible processed.
I have read some complain of fertility that has been connected to their vegetable based protein feed. If you read through their stuff over the last five years, the same crowd seams to attribute any number of things to the lack of fertility. None of which has anything to do with their decisions or their birds. I bought into it initially, but see no real evidence. Just talk.

I have grown out quite a few birds on some different feeds. I achieved just as good of a finish on Flock Riser by Purina as I did any other. That includes gains and condition. I only saw improvement in hatchability and the size and vigor of the chicks by using a breeder ration, but that mix is formulated for the purpose. I have seen no change in fertility. You can accomplish almost as much by supplementing with some Calf Manna and some sunflower seeds if you wanted to.

I think it depends as much on the quality of the ingredients used as much as it depends on the ingredients themselves. There is any number of mixes when balanced properly will achieve similar results.

I am not certain that the new move to vegetarian feed is rational, but on the other hand is there any real evidence that it has been detrimental to the birds? I mean proof.

If the birds is getting a good ration, and the birds are not burdened by other management problems, then it is genetic. That boils down to us to fix.
It was easy for me to see raising the NHs and Catalanas side by side. Same feed, and same conditions. One had very good feather quality across the board, and the other almost uniformly had poor feather quality. That is something I will have to work on. I am going to try a few things and have no idea where I am going to end up with it in the long run. Unfortunately it is one concern of many.

I think that sometimes when we get stuck, we have to go outside for something to help us fix the problem.

LOL George I have the pleasure here of only getting to use veg. based layer(and breeder rations) as there is not a source for feed with animal proteins in it at all here. So unless brought in from and outside source and that would mean I'd not be able to afford this hobby(would not go thru all that) and I do fine with it everything here. I wished I had the other feeds just to do a comparison of my own test and satisfaction of knowing(the science of it all). On the other hand all I can say is the only result I can come up with here, is that the vegetarian food must just make for good rooster hatching and growing because I sure get way more than my share, in fact I get enough to pass around for multiple folks to enjoy(any takers) LOL

 

[thedragonlady]

Awesome! For clarity. The oats you're giving the chicks, are they just moistens a bit or do you add enough water to create a bit of a porridge?

I moisten their oatmeal into sloppy porridge, and introduce it on my finger. Once they taste it; look out for your fingers ! You can add Grits, or coarse ground cornmeal too. They love it all.

I neglected to mention that my babies in the greenhouse, get all of the small seeds that my Sun Conures leave.And before anyone panics about diseases, I 've had these Suns for 25 years ! Disgustingly healthy, noisy, little boogers.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Dragonlady, why is it that you specifically only use the Wazine once?

 

[RedRidge]

Actually chickens are omnivores... But i won't get into that.
In addition to bugs and small rodents via free range, my layers get BSF. I raise BSF the majority of the year here (for free thank goodness) but I don't feed them all directly. I freeze a percentage of them and feed them over the winter months when we have no bugs to forage.
They are actually included in my winter ration and I weigh them out each morning (yep... there's that anal side of me again) LOL

I never feed BSF to prelaying birds (well... almost never, I do toss them a few as a treat every once in a while). But BSF are way too high in calcium for chicks to eat on a regular basis.
When all other livestock is butchered throughout the year i save all the meat and bone meal... This is what the chicks get.
The remaining, non-animal protein part of the ration is grains we grow or acquire locally that are fermented prior to feeding. I have a hammer mill so I grind them a little finer for brooder chicks who begin on fermented grains from day 1. By the time they are 6-10 weeks old they are eating fermented whole grains like the rest of the flock.

 

[Canieldonrad]

Actually chickens are omnivores... But i won't get into that.
In addition to bugs and small rodents via free range, my layers get BSF. I raise BSF the majority of the year here (for free thank goodness) but I don't feed them all directly. I freeze a percentage of them and feed them over the winter months when we have no bugs to forage.
They are actually included in my winter ration and I weigh them out each morning (yep... there's that anal side of me again) LOL

I never feed BSF to prelaying birds (well... almost never, I do toss them a few as a treat every once in a while). But BSF are way too high in calcium for chicks to eat on a regular basis.
When all other livestock is butchered throughout the year i save all the meat and bone meal... This is what the chicks get.
The remaining, non-animal protein part of the ration is grains we grow or acquire locally that are fermented prior to feeding. I have a hammer mill so I grind them a little finer for brooder chicks who begin on fermented grains from day 1. By the time they are 6-10 weeks old they are eating fermented whole grains like the rest of the flock.

I hear of a lot of people keeping Black Soldier Fly, if even just for quick composting. My question is, how do you control the egg laying? Do they ever end up laying eggs into the neighbors landscaping(mulch)?