Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[bnjrob]

I thought a higher calorie food was needed to keep them warmer and that is why people feed corn in the winter?

Yes, but the short days in winter is the big factor in decreased egg production. Even here in TX we see decreased laying in winter, and we don't get the really frigid temps like the north does, it's the lack of enough hours of daylight that cuts our egg production the most.

 

[ronott1]

Egg laying is affected by the length of daylight a hen has and her age. 14 hrs is optmal. I have a light on a timmer for mine. It comes on early in the morning and also another in their wired area where I keep food and water.The corn or scratch (which I prefer )is given just before nightfall. It gives them a crop full to digest at night and gives a bit of warmth. Too much protein can damage their kidneys. 16-20 percent is good. I also give mine greens that I grow in a box in the winter. The vitamins in the greens help to keep them healthy and the yolks darker. They love them. Too much of a good thing can be bad either with fats or proteins. Too fat a hen has trouble laying. good luck with your flock

Too much protein will actually lower egg production too. Layer is 16 to 17% protein because of this.

It will not hurt to supplement with calf manna several times a week though. Good information on the carbs!

 

[gjensen]

I thought a higher calorie food was needed to keep them warmer and that is why people feed corn in the winter?

Their feed is already high calorie. It is likely mostly corn already. Free fed, they will "go to bed" with their crops full. That is all we can do. It does feel better to do something.

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
I've seen a decrease in laying here in southern Arizona, too. Production slowed in early December and recently began to pick up again a few days ago. I'm fortunate to be far enough south the short days are not an issue for long. But the effect on production is noticeable. I started collecting eggs for hatching in December, right around the time production started to decline. I'm not using artificial lights. I hope that hatching from eggs laid in winter with no artificial lighting helps improve winter productivity in the flock over the long run. Mostly I'm hatching in winter because it gets so hot so fast here I don't want to be brooding chicks in the 100+ degree heat. Which happened in March last year. If there happens to be a boost in winter productivity that's a great side effect. We shall see.

 

[LindaB220]

Too much protein will actually lower egg production too. Layer is 16 to 17% protein because of this.

It will not hurt to supplement with calf manna several times a week though. Good information on the carbs!

Hmmmm, I'll have to pay better attenion on the protein levels. Mine is high. They are getting ready to lay so I'll be switching to Azure organic layer. I can get it locally now so I'm happy.

 

[3riverschick]

Thank you everyone for the fine info. My birds didn't seem to be doing well on 16%. I mean they were maintaining but not thriving. Then I read that some of these heritage large fowl do better on 22 to 26% feeds. . So I switched them to better levels of protein and they did much better. They did best on Cargill's Agway Meat Bird. Finally put on more weight and their feathers looked great. Technically, historically, the Sussex is a meat bird. The Light Sussex, a variety which was a meat bird bred to lay more eggs than the other varieties. My cocks run with my hens so the higher calcium with the layer feed won't work. Too much for the cocks. I need to keep the calcium to no higher than 1.4. Right now they are doing ok on the S. States Meat Maker. I called Cargill and got Naturewise. Seems their sister product to the Agway Meat Bird the Turkey product. I have never gone as high as 26 or 28 percent with my birds.
The artic blast is finally past after 8 days of very bitter cold. I don't feed my birds corn during egg laying season. I was warned it would make them fat and decrease egg production. Maybe I will try the Calf Manna. Funny, my birds seem to do best with feeds that have molasses in them. Like the Cargill products.
I wonder what that means?
Thanks,
Karen

 

[finnfur]

Thank you everyone for the fine info. My birds didn't seem to be doing well on 16%. I mean they were maintaining but not thriving. Then I read that some of these heritage large fowl do better on 22 to 26% feeds. . So I switched them to better levels of protein and they did much better. They did best on Cargill's Agway Meat Bird. Finally put on more weight and their feathers looked great. Technically, historically, the Sussex is a meat bird. The Light Sussex, a variety which was a meat bird bred to lay more eggs than the other varieties. My cocks run with my hens so the higher calcium with the layer feed won't work. Too much for the cocks. I need to keep the calcium to no higher than 1.4. Right now they are doing ok on the S. States Meat Maker. I called Cargill and got Naturewise. Seems their sister product to the Agway Meat Bird the Turkey product. I have never gone as high as 26 or 28 percent with my birds.
The artic blast is finally past after 8 days of very bitter cold. I don't feed my birds corn during egg laying season. I was warned it would make them fat and decrease egg production. Maybe I will try the Calf Manna. Funny, my birds seem to do best with feeds that have molasses in them. Like the Cargill products.
I wonder what that means?
Thanks,
Karen

I use the 20% Southern states " Rock n rooster" which they call a Grower / finisher / maintenance- Oyster shells are free serve for the hens.
That way everybody gets the same thing and I have never seen a Cock eat a oyster shell yet. Last three weeks of cockerel finishing I add Calf Mana heavy
to the daily fermented feed.
They finish off nice.

 

[ronott1]

Thank you everyone for the fine info. My birds didn't seem to be doing well on 16%. I mean they were maintaining but not thriving. Then I read that some of these heritage large fowl do better on 22 to 26% feeds. . So I switched them to better levels of protein and they did much better. They did best on Cargill's Agway Meat Bird. Finally put on more weight and their feathers looked great. Technically, historically, the Sussex is a meat bird. The Light Sussex, a variety which was a meat bird bred to lay more eggs than the other varieties. My cocks run with my hens so the higher calcium with the layer feed won't work. Too much for the cocks. I need to keep the calcium to no higher than 1.4. Right now they are doing ok on the S. States Meat Maker. I called Cargill and got Naturewise. Seems their sister product to the Agway Meat Bird the Turkey product. I have never gone as high as 26 or 28 percent with my birds.
The artic blast is finally past after 8 days of very bitter cold. I don't feed my birds corn during egg laying season. I was warned it would make them fat and decrease egg production. Maybe I will try the Calf Manna. Funny, my birds seem to do best with feeds that have molasses in them. Like the Cargill products.
I wonder what that means?
Thanks,
Karen

Last fall during molting I used Nutrena feather fixer. It is seventeen percent protein but has other things added to it. Purina has re formulated their feed and have added pro biotics and amino acids. for both layeena and flock raiser. My Heritage breeds to very well on both and the feather fixer was amazing. It did what it was supposed to for the poor molting chickens.

Check into the labels on the feed and the meat bird feed likely has ingredients in it that are making the big difference. Too much focus on protein can be a problem. Some give their chickens cat fish feed, cat food and etc. to increase protein and that is not very good for the chickens.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

If I was going to supplement with milk, it would be raw milk from a grass- fed farm animal, probably. Back when they used to feed milk to chickens you can bet that's what it was ... And raw milk behaves rather differently to pasturized milk. Feeding milk to chickens on a vegetarian diet was shown to help the birds do better. That said, I've thought about using powdered milk and I'm still not sure if I will. I've read about gassy birds or funky poo from too much modern dairy. Cultured buttermilk might be better, except that is expensive. I wouldn't want to use anything with mystery ingredients in it, either ... or any of the things I'm avoiding in the custom poultry feed, or manufactured with a variable recipe. I'm torn about dairy for protein boosts so I haven't tried it yet ...

For extra vitamins & minerals for poultry, there is the Nutri balance product ... gets great reviews. Probably a good idea for breeders unless you have lots of confidence in your feed.

I like adding eggs and/or Nutritional Yeast when I'm feeding a protein treat. Eggs are a good idea when feeding young birds with a high protein need, like poults. If you can spare the eggs.

My opinion is that the lower protein percentage of most laying rations is about the minimum protein level for industrial layers. Much lower and even those birds don't do well (egg quality drops, or they stop layin and go into a molt, or show higher mortality). Studies show birds do better with more protein, but protein is expensive so generally recipes are designed for the minimum. The heritage breed conservancy recommends higher protein for heritage birds.

I'm not sure where the idea that birds will get damaged on anything higher than 16% protein comes from ... I haven't found research to support that.

Now too much calcium ... I've found research cautioning against that.

And of course a lot depends on the forage. IMO you always want a quality ration, but birds with great forage might eat less of it.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I use the 20% Southern states " Rock n rooster" which they call a Grower / finisher / maintenance- Oyster shells are free serve for the hens.
That way everybody gets the same thing and I have never seen a Cock eat a oyster shell yet. Last three weeks of cockerel finishing I add Calf Mana heavy
to the daily fermented feed.
They finish off nice.

We have a similar system here. Minus the calf manna. If I was going to feed calf manna that's how I'd use it. I like the idea of finishing the cockerels with something to sweeten them up a bit.