Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[hellbender]

hee, hee, hee! Look what I found, surfing Google book this evening:
"Mr. Lewis Wright, whose name as an authority on poultry matters is universally known, writes of the Sussex in 1864: "The most distinctive point about the breed as I knew it then, was its width of its back. It was wider and flatter than any other, according to my impression." The Dorking back at present is quite different, sloping away from the center. The birds I supposed were Sussex or Surreys forty years ago, would have touched a rule laid across, about four or five inches. This characteristic is still preserved and no breed looks so square formed as the Sussex, and it has a long deep breast bone and a broad square forward breast, and its skin is very fine and white. But its chief merit over the Dorking is its far greater hardihood. In Sussex the chicken rearing season lasts the whole year round and is conducted out of doors, that is to say the coops are out in the open every month of the year, indeed, it is no very uncommon thing to dig them out of the snow. I have done it myself: but as a rule winter in Sussex is very open: i.e., snow is conspicuous by its absence. There is in fact no hardier breed living than the Sussex. For generations it has never been coddled or made to live the artificial life of a fanciers' fowl, it can stand almost any amount of cold and does."
Best,
Karen
Now I just wish I knew how to breed that flat back, sigh. if I understand poultry anatomy correctly and how all the different parts of body type harmonize...if I can get this wide flat back, everything else about correct Sussex body type should fall into place.

If you really want to do it...YOU can!

 

[3riverschick]

1. 64. CHICKEN Assessment for improving productivity Assessment at 8 and 16 Weeks of Age 1. Skull width • A wide skull on a chicken is a strong indicator of good growth potential. If birds cannot be physically examined, often judging skull width visually can be a reliable indicator of young birds with good growth potential. • If the skull is narrow, then the rest of the bird will be narrow. As a rule of thumb, medium to large skull width is good for egg layers, and large to extra wide skulls are better for meat birds.
2. 65. 2. Heart girth  A good heart girth is an indicator that there is enough space for the internal organs to be of good size, maximizing the bird’s potential for growth and development. Care must be taken to ensure that the girth is accurately assessed. • Often, if the bird’s legs are held slightly forward during the assessment, the girth can seem larger than it actually is. For a more precise assessment have the legs of the bird pointing towards the rear of its body and place your fingers on each side of the ribs just behind where the wings attach to the birds body.
3. 66. 3. Back flatness, length, and breadth • A flat back makes for a more attractive carcass on a table bird. Good length and width contribute to the quality of the dressed bird as well. Flat backs are one indicator of good bone development in a bird. The back should be wide and carry its width along its length. • Generous length and width of back are indicators of longevity, vigor, and provide ample capacity for egg and digestive organs. Birds with narrow or tapered backs lack the capacity for satisfactory egg production.
4. 67. 4. Body depth, capacity • As with heart girth, this aspect of the bird’s body indicates whether there is ample or restricted space for internal organs. Body depth is the thickness between the back and the keel. • Good depth gives birds an advantage for internal organ development. This factor also contributes to carcass appearance for the table bird.
5. 68. 5. Breast and keel • The keel is examined for its straightness & length (for good carcass appearance) and the breast is inspected for development of good meat proportions. • The amount of meat on the breast will ultimately drive the bird’s appeal to the consumer. • Position the bird in an inverted manner to get an accurate feel for fleshing.
6. 69. 6.Weight • Young birds can be weighed to determine overall growth rates for the flock. Weight has the advantage of being an impartial record that can allow comparison of different generations of birds. • As your flock grows and years of selection occur, target weights can be designated as minimum qualifications for retention of breeding stock. • Males should meet or exceed 5.1 pounds and females 3.5 pounds by age 16 weeks. The heaviest birds that make the cut in the first 5 categories can be marked as potential breeders as early as 8 weeks of age.
7. 70. 7. Color • Although ideal color is nice, it is not a necessity in the early stages of selection for production traits in a breed. • It should be noted that it is more important to have males with good color than females because the males carry two genes for color (ZZ) and females only one (Z0). Once production traits meet the program’s goals, then color can be improved through further selective breeding. • The bottom line is that color is much easier to correct than production traits. • Width of skull, heart girth, flatness of back, and fleshing on breast are the most significant qualities to look for in the selection process with young birds. They are characteristics that all of the superior birds excel in. Typically, the birds that excelled in these traits at 8 weeks of age will remain the top birds at 16 weeks of age.

 

[3riverschick]

ok the post above is just part of an extensive article on the necessity for biodiversity. I quoted it because of the "flat back" topic. http://www.slideshare.net/PakRose1/poultry-breeding The article is technical enough for my brain to smoke and very technical. But I thought this part was really good. Much of the rest of the article was very technical for me, ( oh my poor brain, smile),
Karen
Ok. once more with feeling:
http://albc-usa.org/documents/
CHICKEN Assessment for improving productivity
ALBCchicken_assessment-1.pdf
Chapter 1
Selecting for Meat Qualities and Rate of Growth

• ALBCchicken_assessment-2.pdf
• Chapter 2
  Selecting for Egg Production
• ALBCchicken_assessment-3.pdf
• Chapter 3
  Ongoing Selection of Breeding Stock
• ALBCchicken_comparison_sheet.pdf

ALBC Chicken Breed Comparison Sheet
----------------------------------------------------
Culling the Poultry Flock
By H. E. COSBY
http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/x...957/17365/ExtensionBulletin590.pdf?sequence=1
-------------------------------------------------------

 

[gjensen]

I know this herbal treatment is tantamount to biblical writings to some but taking the chance on not being politically correct, when I kill/prevent parasites, I go for the 'Big-Bang' Theory. I kill what's there to torment me and my birds and hopefully leave enough residue to kill any residual eggs that might be laying around.

Anything that is toxic enough to kill the parasites is toxic. There is no way around that. I use what is safe and effective. The silly notions about DE and any new flavor of a fad is just that. Like yourself, I prefer effective and proven to be effective. It is only a matter of being responsible about the methods.

 

[finnfur]

Anything that is toxic enough to kill the parasites is toxic. There is no way around that. I use what is safe and effective. The silly notions about DE and any new flavor of a fad is just that. Like yourself, I prefer effective and proven to be effective. It is only a matter of being responsible about the methods.

Don't understand the statement - Are you saying DE is not effective and just a fad ?

 

[Wisher1000]

I have tried DE and found that it was not effective either as a preventative or as a treatment. I have heard the statements of the proponents and the opponents, but my experience was that it didn't work at all.

 

[ronott1]

I have tried DE and found that it was not effective either as a preventative or as a treatment. I have heard the statements of the proponents and the opponents, but my experience was that it didn't work at all.

I have read that too.

One point that George was making was that all treatments have a danger to them. DE can damage lungs so neither the chickens or us, as the person applying it should breathe it.

There is a new poison that will kill mites called Spinosad. It is listed as having low toxicity for animals.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I have read that too.

One point that George was making was that all treatments have a danger to them. DE can damage lungs so neither the chickens or us, as the person applying it should breathe it.

There is a new poison that will kill mites called Spinosad. It is listed as having low toxicity for animals.

Spinosad has been around for a while, but is new-ish to poultry in the form of the Elector PSP I posted about. No egg or meat withdrawal, and actually approved for poultry, which is great. It is marketed for mites, but it worked here for lice, too. It's used for lice on humans, for fleas on dogs, and for parasites on orchards and stuff. It isn't great for bees, but some of my most environmentally minded friends prefer it over other flea treatments. I think the active ingredient is some kind of super specific soil bacteria?

You need to switch it out with other treatments to mitigate resistance issues. But I believe it is a great tool for the tool box, especially if you need to use it during laying or butcher season. I believe you can even use it if you're Certified Organic, as it's considered "natural" like DE & sulfur, but is certainly more effective than DE or even sulfur.

 

[bnjrob]

I have tried DE and found that it was not effective either as a preventative or as a treatment. I have heard the statements of the proponents and the opponents, but my experience was that it didn't work at all.

I have found that unless I'm using an actual poison, which I only use for ant baiting and wasp killing, everything depends on a particular situation for effectiveness. And if something doesn't work then I have to figure out what has changed and then change how I'm using a product, say to add more of the product or use it more often. And that problem occurs even with things like spinosad, frontline, ivermectin, etc. It's a balancing act to use various products with good results unless you're using poisons which just kill everything. What works for me may not work in someone else's situation since we all have different environments that our birds are living in and we each have our own husbandry methods.

 

[Wisher1000]

I have found that unless I'm using an actual poison, which I only use for ant baiting and wasp killing, everything depends on a particular situation for effectiveness. And if something doesn't work then I have to figure out what has changed and then change how I'm using a product, say to add more of the product or use it more often. And that problem occurs even with things like spinosad, frontline, ivermectin, etc. It's a balancing act to use various products with good results unless you're using poisons which just kill everything. What works for me may not work in someone else's situation since we all have different environments that our birds are living in and we each have our own husbandry methods.

I agree.

Like I said, I was sharing from my personal experience.