Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
So far my behavioral selection has been to eat the human-aggressive birds. The flighty line is new here and I haven't selected against flightiness yet. I introduced that line here because I need the body type. I don't want overly mellow birds. I want them alert and predator savvy, wary but calm around humans. Not hitting the wire every time I walk into the pen. Eventually I will select for non-flighty. For now the priority is body type.

Not sure I have enough experience to answer the fertility question. I've only been doing this for a few years. In my flock fertility problems can happen with aggressive birds as well as overly mellow ones. This year I have a good-looking cockerel I was trying to get chicks from because I want to know if he is carrying an undesirable recessive trait. Problem is he's an aggressive jerk and the hens don't like him. Eggs from his pen have had low fertility and I haven't gotten enough chicks from him to answer the recessive trait question. He is headed for the stew pot unless he learns some manners soon.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

So far my behavioral selection has been to eat the human-aggressive birds. The flighty line is new here and I haven't selected against flightiness yet. I introduced that line here because I need the body type. I don't want overly mellow birds. I want them alert and predator savvy, wary but calm around humans. Not hitting the wire every time I walk into the pen. Eventually I will select for non-flighty. For now the priority is body type.

Not sure I have enough experience to answer the fertility question. I've only been doing this for a few years. In my flock fertility problems can happen with aggressive birds as well as overly mellow ones. This year I have a good-looking cockerel I was trying to get chicks from because I want to know if he is carrying an undesirable recessive trait. Problem is he's an aggressive jerk and the hens don't like him. Eggs from his pen have had low fertility and I haven't gotten enough chicks from him to answer the recessive trait question. He is headed for the stew pot unless he learns some manners soon.

I suppose that if all else fails, there's artificial insemination!

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Try here:
small breeding pens: https://www.fayrehalefarm.com/poultry-breeding-pens/
Best,
Karen (who likes walk in pens, smile)

Karen we agree - if I can't walk in I am not building it anymore- we have one chicken tractor from our original setup and I dislike it immensely - to old for the stooping and crawling

Our first attempt at a "portable" cage was to build a 4 x 4 x 10 thing out of 2x4s and hardware cloth. We could barely lift it, so it quickly got planted permanently (trenched for draining and to bury hardware cloth around it). The sides are too high to reach the bottom of the coop from the outside, and the front doors are not good for humans either. We do still use it as a temporary cage. But it's more Exhibit A of how not to build a chicken tractor or coop.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Our first attempt at a "portable" cage was to build a 4 x 4 x 10 thing out of 2x4s and hardware cloth. We could barely lift it, so it quickly got planted permanently (trenched for draining and to bury hardware cloth around it). The sides are too high to reach the bottom of the coop from the outside, and the front doors are not good for humans either. We do still use it as a temporary cage. But it's more Exhibit A of how not to build a chicken tractor or coop.

I'm building a short coop too, only 3 1/2 feet (no Langshans or Shamos here) but the top of the coop will be flat and lifts up like the hood on a car. Thankfully I don't have flighty breeds.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Currently my favorite coop style, T-Posts, Cattle Panels, poultry wire, plastic. The door & end at the top is just a chunk cattle panel we hinged to another chunk of cattle panel, covered in both wire and plastic. Ignore the roosts, they're stupid. And this needs shade in the summer, obviously. This one is big ... I think it's 6 panels; two or three panels would do for a breeding colony.

 

[Wisher1000]

Quote:

I'm building a short coop too, only 3 1/2 feet (no Langshans or Shamos here) but the top of the coop will be flat and lifts up like the hood on a car. Thankfully I don't have flighty breeds.

I might suggest that you make the top in two (or three) sections that all lift for access. I have a couple that open the way you mentioned and if I need to catch a bird it has room to run to one end and fly out the top. I like having one end closed and only a smaller opening that I can block with my body. I have one that I call the "ground run" and it is 4'x8'x2'. The top is divided into thirds and the middle section is divided in half the other direction. (It has an "H" in the middle.) Only one of the halves of that middle section opens and I use a fishing dip net to catch birds out of it if needed.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I might suggest that you make the top in two (or three) sections that all lift for access. I have a couple that open the way you mentioned and if I need to catch a bird it has room to run to one end and fly out the top. I like having one end closed and only a smaller opening that I can block with my body. I have one that I call the "ground run" and it is 4'x8'x2'. The top is divided into thirds and the middle section is divided in half the other direction. (It has an "H" in the middle.) Only one of the halves of that middle section opens and I use a fishing dip net to catch birds out of it if needed.

Good tip. Our big mistake coop has three doors along one long side -- that's one thing we got right. And we can divide it into three smaller pens large enough to temporarily hold a couple birds each. Besides The Big MIstake, we also have little brooder-type cages of a very similar design but different scale that we love, those are more like 2 x 3 x 6.5, that we use for broody cages now, and having doors on the top at opposite ends is great. It still means a two-man team for catching older birds if we're using them for holding cages, but it sure makes tending the broodies/chicks easier with dual lid access. They are just small enough for one person to move them around a bit, though that's not fun.



This one looks like it has been to war ... it needs a tune-up. That thing on the top is the nest tray where we set up the broody with her eggs. It is dividable, so we can set up two broodies in the same cage by giving them their clutches at the same time. We set that at one end under one hatch door, and feed and water goes at the other end under the other hatch door.

I suppose a Langshan hen would feel squished in there.

 

[gjensen]

There is so many things to select for. I want what I want, and have said it enough around here. No one wants to hear it again. But, do not get to caught up in it. They are chickens. Kill the man fighters and any bird that is a nervous wreck compared to the other birds in that same flock. These things are heritable, and they do matter. Just be careful about getting stuck on this point. We do not want birds that are lethargic. We just want to avoid extremes. Let them be chickens.

Concerning calm and fertility. I am not so sure about that, less extremes. A good active vigorous male is going to top more hens. If that is what they are saying, maybe. And that is what you want. We do not want lethargic males. We want them active and vigorous. We just do not want man fighters. We want to avoid extremes.

The breeding pens are as varied as those breeding. I have a variety, and had different things in mind at the time. What we are trying to accomplish is to move a population of birds forward. We can do that with small and large groups. Many or few groups.

One of the best breeders that I know of simply runs two families, and keeps about ten females in each family. He keeps about four males. Another keeps a single group of 25 (plus or minus) females and rotates a single male on them, and keeps four or five males. Neither of these are using many small pens. I am sharing this to say that it is not a requirement. Both of these have the best birds in that breed and variety in the country. No matter what we do, it will still boil down to selection. There are advantages to every style.

I am afraid that we over emphasize methodology. I do.

I do not like pvc pens. PVC does not hold well over time. I do like the bottom frame to be treated lumber, and pvc can be cut in half to fasten to the bottom. This aids in moving, if it is a concern. I am ok with 4'x8' pens for four hens if they are being let out. 5' x 8' is better for supplying shade, and they can be let out every other day. The eight extra square feet makes a difference, and the extra foot wide adds more shaded space. I like them three feet tall (32" without top and bottom plate), and a gable roof for at least half. The gables should be open. This provides more elevation, and gets the heat radiating from the roof off of the birds. I do not like metal roofs on these small pens unless they are in the shade in the summer. Small enclosures with metal roofs, baking in the summer sun, is not a responsible way to raise birds. In the shade, they are fine. An option for metal roofs, is thin sheet insulation installed before the metal panels. The cost is negligible considering, and makes for a cooler enclosure.
I have large walk in tractors that I love. They might be too difficult for some to move. I use wheels, and a hand cart. It works well, and I like walking in them to feed, water, and collect eggs. I let them out every day, so it can sit stationary for a while, if need be. I can keep a dozen hens in these 8'x10' pens, and not let them out daily. I still do though. They work best if they are on clean grass all of the time. They all work best if they are always on fresh forage.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Right now it's about cock storage and isolating hens to collect hatching.

It was easier the year I had just a trio. Then I had one cockerel and a cock who both needed their own space. Now I've got two generations of cocks plus a batch of cockerels still in consideration. Housing needs seem to grow exponentially each year. How people do more than one breed is beyond me.

 

[Wisher1000]

I have three 8'x8' pens in my breeder barn. I have one cock and five hens in my "A" team pen and one cock and four hens in my "B" team pen. I have two back-up cocks in a small pen and about six back-up hens in my egg flock. I use the third pen for a pair of nice RIRs that are trying to talk me into breeding them. All the other pens are used for chicks, juveniles, segregation, etc., as needed. I rotate letting the breeders out to free range so they usually spend all day out every other day.

I do not tolerate a mean rooster on my place. In all the Silver Campine roosters that I have raised, I have only had one that followed me and looked like he was thinking about rushing me. He never did. He did, however, chase my 12lb house dog around the yard several times. He stayed for a while, but didn't make the final cut. Pity, he was feisty.

I have two pens that are 4'x8'x4' with half covered and walled and the other half wired. I cut holes in the plywood walls and slide a 2x4 through so that a couple of feet stick out on both sides. I then hook a strap onto the ends and hook the strap over the teeth on the bucket of the tractor and pick it up to move it. Its best if someone walks along to steady it, but I CAN do it alone if I have to.