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- #31
Do more research.. I've actually been thinking of buying a pair from him. They are like 3 hours from me!!!
Hey Seasoned Rabbit-ers!!
- Thread starter TroyerGal
- Start date
I've been able to transition rabbits who weren't raised on pasture to full-time pasture without any diarrhea occurring. I provide pellets as supplemental feed so they choose how much salad bar vs. pellets to eat. In the winter, they also get hay. Their pastures aren't treated with any chemicals and their pellets are local. The rabbits are of three breeds and all do well on pasture.
I am intensely familiar with his rabbits and with all the practices at Polyface. What I'm saying is that anyone could do that if you give them a few years. I've been in rabbits since I was a kid too. Many people have been. I'm not impressed. It's called marketing and it's a requirement for small farms.
You see, large farms are subsidized by the government. A certain percentage of your taxes goes to paying farmers to raise certain food items. (Primarily corn but also other largely produced foods such as chicken, beef, pork, wheat, soy, etc.) Those farmers get payed whether or not their food actually makes it to market. If all their chickens died, they'd still break even because of taxpayer funded subsidies.
So small farmers literally can't compete. If I want to raise rabbits and buy my feed at a standard rate (which is 14-18/bag, so for the sake of argument we'll say $16/50lbs), I am paying 12 cents per lb of food. But, see, on average it takes 3.6lbs of feed to produce one lb of live rabbit, so about 43 cents. If I raise my rabbits to standard market weight (5lbs) I have put $2.16 into the rabbit. Then I have to transport my rabbits to the butcher which costs gas and then I have to pay for the FDA inspected butcher. FDA inspected facilities are few and far between, but I am lucky to live 1.5hours away from one. So that means about $7 in gas each way. Then the fee per rabbit is about $1.75 if I'm doing 50 of them. Which brings my per-rabbit costs up to about $4.20/rabbit. The average dress out rate for a rabbit is about 65% (if I am generous) so about 3.25lbs of rabbit. So I have spent about $1.30/lb on raising these rabbits BEFORE overhead costs and labor. If I count overhead, it looks more like $2/lb. Then, before I get to pay myself, I have to negotiate with a supplier. Around here, rabbit meat goes for about $6/lb, but they will only pay me half of that, so I get $3/lb.
So after all that work, months of raising rabbits, I make $1/lb to pay myself in labor costs. So those 50 rabbits (which took a long time to raise and daily labor) made me a grand total of $162. Woo party. There's literally no way to make a living off of that until you scale up to industrial size. None.
So small farmers use marketing, especially to sell breeder animals which can garner several times the profit that meat can. And I can't blame them for doing this, I do the same thing, but you really should know that's what it is, it's marketing. Polyface farms makes a huge chunk of it's money (as in; most of it) selling books, classes, breeding livestock, seminars, etc. And they do very good work with it, they teach people a lot of things, and they fight for real change for our food system. But without those outside, marketing-based revenues (including marketing their rabbits as "diarrhea resistant") they would be broke, because they are an unsubsidized farm and without a tax subsidy paying for your labor there's no way to make a living off of farming alone. They're doing what they have to and they're good at it.
Anyone with serious experience raising rabbits knows that (with the exception of a few genetic malfunctions) any line of rabbits can be converted into a pasture-optimized line within a few generations... This is especially true because diarrhea in rabbits is mostly caused by an upset in gut flora, which is a one generation fix. And while I expect Polyface rabbits have this trait more genetically secure than most, it's really not worth the effort to seek them out when you can get 90% of the same results by just optimizing your rabbits at home.
So tldr; Polyface uses that as a marketing technique because farming is unprofitable (because government) and you can do the same thing at home and get nearly as good results.
You see, large farms are subsidized by the government. A certain percentage of your taxes goes to paying farmers to raise certain food items. (Primarily corn but also other largely produced foods such as chicken, beef, pork, wheat, soy, etc.) Those farmers get payed whether or not their food actually makes it to market. If all their chickens died, they'd still break even because of taxpayer funded subsidies.
So small farmers literally can't compete. If I want to raise rabbits and buy my feed at a standard rate (which is 14-18/bag, so for the sake of argument we'll say $16/50lbs), I am paying 12 cents per lb of food. But, see, on average it takes 3.6lbs of feed to produce one lb of live rabbit, so about 43 cents. If I raise my rabbits to standard market weight (5lbs) I have put $2.16 into the rabbit. Then I have to transport my rabbits to the butcher which costs gas and then I have to pay for the FDA inspected butcher. FDA inspected facilities are few and far between, but I am lucky to live 1.5hours away from one. So that means about $7 in gas each way. Then the fee per rabbit is about $1.75 if I'm doing 50 of them. Which brings my per-rabbit costs up to about $4.20/rabbit. The average dress out rate for a rabbit is about 65% (if I am generous) so about 3.25lbs of rabbit. So I have spent about $1.30/lb on raising these rabbits BEFORE overhead costs and labor. If I count overhead, it looks more like $2/lb. Then, before I get to pay myself, I have to negotiate with a supplier. Around here, rabbit meat goes for about $6/lb, but they will only pay me half of that, so I get $3/lb.
So after all that work, months of raising rabbits, I make $1/lb to pay myself in labor costs. So those 50 rabbits (which took a long time to raise and daily labor) made me a grand total of $162. Woo party. There's literally no way to make a living off of that until you scale up to industrial size. None.
So small farmers use marketing, especially to sell breeder animals which can garner several times the profit that meat can. And I can't blame them for doing this, I do the same thing, but you really should know that's what it is, it's marketing. Polyface farms makes a huge chunk of it's money (as in; most of it) selling books, classes, breeding livestock, seminars, etc. And they do very good work with it, they teach people a lot of things, and they fight for real change for our food system. But without those outside, marketing-based revenues (including marketing their rabbits as "diarrhea resistant") they would be broke, because they are an unsubsidized farm and without a tax subsidy paying for your labor there's no way to make a living off of farming alone. They're doing what they have to and they're good at it.
Anyone with serious experience raising rabbits knows that (with the exception of a few genetic malfunctions) any line of rabbits can be converted into a pasture-optimized line within a few generations... This is especially true because diarrhea in rabbits is mostly caused by an upset in gut flora, which is a one generation fix. And while I expect Polyface rabbits have this trait more genetically secure than most, it's really not worth the effort to seek them out when you can get 90% of the same results by just optimizing your rabbits at home.
So tldr; Polyface uses that as a marketing technique because farming is unprofitable (because government) and you can do the same thing at home and get nearly as good results.
I agree that you can develop your own line of meat rabbits that do well on pasture and don't have diarrhea issues. I also know a couple who raise rabbits from Daniel Salatin's foundation stock and seem happy with them. I guess it's just a matter of preference.
On a different note, has anyone else encountered squeamishness around people buying rabbit meat? I was very surprised to find it where I live, but it seems like people just can't help but think of rabbits as fuzzy and cute...just pets. Funny - chickens start out fuzzy and cute, as do ducks, cattle, sheep, pigs - but those are ok to eat without reservation, apparently.
On a different note, has anyone else encountered squeamishness around people buying rabbit meat? I was very surprised to find it where I live, but it seems like people just can't help but think of rabbits as fuzzy and cute...just pets. Funny - chickens start out fuzzy and cute, as do ducks, cattle, sheep, pigs - but those are ok to eat without reservation, apparently.
Oh, no doubt they're awesome rabbits with high quality meat genetics that do a tiny bit better on pasture than someone else's pasture-focused rabbitry. Like I said, he does great stuff over at Polyface and I'm sure he has amazing rabbits, especially for raising on pasture. But it's probably not worth trying to travel the country to get. Maybe if you live in the same state?
I do run into that. I also run into some people who just don't like it texture-wise (though they think the taste is great). Remember that rabbits are something like the third most popular companion animal in the USA. Almost everyone at least directly knows someone who has/had a pet rabbit at one point, whereas pigs are hardly common household pet. It's much more popular to eat in Europe. They have really big rabbit farms over there and it's very common, especially in France.
I've found that the best remedy is to cook rabbit for all my buddies and make it super delicious. Being squeamish is easily overcome with being delicious. Then I have a host of people ready to back up my claims about how great it is.
I do run into that. I also run into some people who just don't like it texture-wise (though they think the taste is great). Remember that rabbits are something like the third most popular companion animal in the USA. Almost everyone at least directly knows someone who has/had a pet rabbit at one point, whereas pigs are hardly common household pet. It's much more popular to eat in Europe. They have really big rabbit farms over there and it's very common, especially in France.
I've found that the best remedy is to cook rabbit for all my buddies and make it super delicious. Being squeamish is easily overcome with being delicious. Then I have a host of people ready to back up my claims about how great it is.
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LOL - appealing to the stomach is a good strategy, and testimonials are invaluable.Oh, no doubt they're awesome rabbits with high quality meat genetics that do a tiny bit better on pasture than someone else's pasture-focused rabbitry. Like I said, he does great stuff over at Polyface and I'm sure he has amazing rabbits, especially for raising on pasture. But it's probably not worth trying to travel the country to get. Maybe if you live in the same state?
I do run into that. I also run into some people who just don't like it texture-wise (though they think the taste is great). Remember that rabbits are something like the third most popular companion animal in the USA. Almost everyone at least directly knows someone who has/had a pet rabbit at one point, whereas pigs are hardly common household pet. It's much more popular to eat in Europe. They have really big rabbit farms over there and it's very common, especially in France.
I've found that the best remedy is to cook rabbit for all my buddies and make it super delicious. Being squeamish is easily overcome with being delicious. Then I have a host of people ready to back up my claims about how great it is.
Rabbit really is delicious - if people gave it a chance, they'd appreciate how lean, flavorful, and nutritious it is. I need to get more creative in cooking it, as I tend to put mine in the slow cooker...a lot. I like to add a Belgian beer, carrots, potatoes, and celery. It gets fall-off-the-bone tender. Do you have any (easy) recipes you'd care to share?
DutchBunny03
Songster
If I were to ever go into pasture raising, I would definately get some. My rabbits are currently housed in wood/wire hutches, with one to a hutch. I am looking forward to building an adjoining run next spring or summer to let the rabbits exercise and forage in. Sadly, my buck will have to be all by himself
Hmm, I like to use rabbit anywhere I use chicken. I like to slow cook a rabbit, pull all the meat off the bones and use it as either BBQd pulled rabbit sandwiches, rabbit tacos or rabbit paprikash.
BBQd pulled rabbit is just your favorite bbq sauce over the rabbit (slow cook it with an onion, S&P, and some worshtichre sauce), apply to bread.
Rabbit tacos is the same but instead of worshtichre sauce you use peppers, apply your favorite taco seasoning and crisp in a frying pan.
Paprikash is boil noodles, shred the rabbit, make the sauce out of sour cream, chicken bullion and paprika to taste. Mix the sauce over the noodles and rabbit. For paprikash I slow cook the rabbit with leeks and garlic.
It's pretty tasty anywhere you'd use chicken or pork. There's not a lot of recipes I use that are rabbit specific.
BBQd pulled rabbit is just your favorite bbq sauce over the rabbit (slow cook it with an onion, S&P, and some worshtichre sauce), apply to bread.
Rabbit tacos is the same but instead of worshtichre sauce you use peppers, apply your favorite taco seasoning and crisp in a frying pan.
Paprikash is boil noodles, shred the rabbit, make the sauce out of sour cream, chicken bullion and paprika to taste. Mix the sauce over the noodles and rabbit. For paprikash I slow cook the rabbit with leeks and garlic.
It's pretty tasty anywhere you'd use chicken or pork. There's not a lot of recipes I use that are rabbit specific.
@ChocolateMouse, thanks for the recipes and ideas - will have to try the paprikash! Makes sense to sub rabbit for chicken. I'd like to try canning rabbit and making sausage, too.
I bet they'll enjoy the run, and the greens.If I were to ever go into pasture raising, I would definately get some. My rabbits are currently housed in wood/wire hutches, with one to a hutch. I am looking forward to building an adjoining run next spring or summer to let the rabbits exercise and forage in. Sadly, my buck will have to be all by himself
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