History of a coop- please help solve this mystery

[Haunted55]

It began with tracing the chicks I got from TSC, Seminole, this led me to Mt. Healthy and then the people involved with the inspections being done there. One of the things I was told was they were surprized there weren't more things turning up in backyard flocks because the lack of biosecurity between the broodies and brooder. Exact words, they stayed with me because of the play. When I explained why I was contacting them, they told me that they had found it there and it could very well have been so. They also contacted the Maine State Vet. Can I prove it came from there? Circumstantial evidence wise, oh sure. Hard facts? Don't have them, I was acting on the say so of the Vet in charge of their field investigations during the outbreaks of salmonella.

In talking with other people locally who also bought chicks at the same time, there did seem to be an awful lot of 'falling off the roost', 'must have got hurt running around', a few others as well. Was it Marek's in their birds? Don't know for sure and I was a little busy trying to save my own at the time. I do know that one person is still having an awful ot of trouble keeping birds because they just keep getting sick and dying. When I asked them the symptoms, I was told they start walking really funny and then start falling over. Then the darned things just up and die. Sounds like Marek's to me, but this person doesn't want it, so doesn't have it.

 

[Naunnie]

So Alex..... How are Rye and Betty doing? Have you been able to get them to eat anything? You are on city water right? I've been researching water quality for poultry. Most of what I have found is information about well water. I'm still looking though.

 

[lampe731]

Thanks both of you! All of this is great info- Haunted I understand about your friend being of the mindset "doesn't want it, so doesn't have it." I'm going to try not to fall into that trap but it is seductive.


I have put the ACV in the waterers and have been making a ACV mash with crushed B complex. They gobble the mixture down. Rye and Betty still are not going to bed with a full crop- but they are eating which is hopeful to me. For the time being the weight loss seems to have slowed and energy seems to be up (fingers crossed).

I sent a sample of my water off for inspection. I know Cincinnati has some of the best city water in the country- we are very lucky. My fear is that the plumbing from the road is so old that heavy chemicals may be leaching in- if it is just a little bit I think it could build up in their systems over time and cause problems. The test says it can take a week to get results (and I'm sure a million advertisements for home purifying systems ect)

My experience at the hatchery was pretty efficient from what I remember. They don't really let you in or anything. You walk into a hallway that has the feel of an old dentist office. There is a receptionist just inside the door. She asks for your info and then a guy opens a door and hands you a box of chicks. Beyond the door I could see (from what I remember- I was more excited about the chicks lol) what looked like an industrial factory full of silver instruments small boxes and a lot of peeping. As I remember they have a very specific time frame that you had to arrive to pick the chicks up like 9am-noon or something. As you say it is entirely possible that I could have picked something up on my shoes and brought it home- but they were in a Rubbermaid tote in the bathtub for the first 12 weeks of life. And of course I have no idea what happened between hatching at me picking them up.

I really hope that I was not unlucky enough to be a first time chicken owner that received Merak's do to the incompetence of a hatchery. Of course- it is possible. If I finish all my current "fix-em-up" endeavor and still feel something doesn't fit I will take one to get tested for Merak's. Haunted- could this (if they indeed have Merak's) help this investigation? Only ever having chicks from one hatchery which I have a receipt for saying I requested the Merak's vaccine? I am interested on everything that you know on the Mt Healthy / Merak's link.

In the meantime I have hope that they were indeed being sickened by some local toxicity. The lesser of two evils here.

Neither of you questioned my change of food- from Purina to highland naturals right around the same time that they all seemed to stop laying. What do you think- could the food be an issue? Could a hen who has eaten processed food have a digestive system that could not handle the change to a more natural whole mix? I have been mulling this over in my head for some time. I really don't want to switch them back to Purina- but could it help? Would the change of diet just add another stress to them?

Thank you both for your help! I'm glad I decided to post about this. It's nice to know that I have more than one brain working on a solution to this problem

 

[seminolewind]

It began with tracing the chicks I got from TSC, Seminole, this led me to Mt. Healthy and then the people involved with the inspections being done there. One of the things I was told was they were surprized there weren't more things turning up in backyard flocks because the lack of biosecurity between the broodies and brooder. Exact words, they stayed with me because of the play. When I explained why I was contacting them, they told me that they had found it there and it could very well have been so. They also contacted the Maine State Vet. Can I prove it came from there? Circumstantial evidence wise, oh sure. Hard facts? Don't have them, I was acting on the say so of the Vet in charge of their field investigations during the outbreaks of salmonella.

In talking with other people locally who also bought chicks at the same time, there did seem to be an awful lot of 'falling off the roost', 'must have got hurt running around', a few others as well. Was it Marek's in their birds? Don't know for sure and I was a little busy trying to save my own at the time. I do know that one person is still having an awful ot of trouble keeping birds because they just keep getting sick and dying. When I asked them the symptoms, I was told they start walking really funny and then start falling over. Then the darned things just up and die. Sounds like Marek's to me, but this person doesn't want it, so doesn't have it.

I have always seen that hatcheries hatch eggs and ship them out, no broodies, all machines. I have not heard of hatcheries that get chicks in. But I don't know everything, and haven't seen everything. If some get chicks in, they could have anything, and infect the whole population. Can you educate me?

I do remember a few years ago that one of the hatcheries had a problem with chicks dying early, but they researched it and replaced people's chicks.

 

[seminolewind]

Thanks both of you! All of this is great info- Haunted I understand about your friend being of the mindset "doesn't want it, so doesn't have it." I'm going to try not to fall into that trap but it is seductive.


I have put the ACV in the waterers and have been making a ACV mash with crushed B complex. They gobble the mixture down. Rye and Betty still are not going to bed with a full crop- but they are eating which is hopeful to me. For the time being the weight loss seems to have slowed and energy seems to be up (fingers crossed).

I sent a sample of my water off for inspection. I know Cincinnati has some of the best city water in the country- we are very lucky. My fear is that the plumbing from the road is so old that heavy chemicals may be leaching in- if it is just a little bit I think it could build up in their systems over time and cause problems. The test says it can take a week to get results (and I'm sure a million advertisements for home purifying systems ect)

My experience at the hatchery was pretty efficient from what I remember. They don't really let you in or anything. You walk into a hallway that has the feel of an old dentist office. There is a receptionist just inside the door. She asks for your info and then a guy opens a door and hands you a box of chicks. Beyond the door I could see (from what I remember- I was more excited about the chicks lol) what looked like an industrial factory full of silver instruments small boxes and a lot of peeping. As I remember they have a very specific time frame that you had to arrive to pick the chicks up like 9am-noon or something. As you say it is entirely possible that I could have picked something up on my shoes and brought it home- but they were in a Rubbermaid tote in the bathtub for the first 12 weeks of life. And of course I have no idea what happened between hatching at me picking them up.

I really hope that I was not unlucky enough to be a first time chicken owner that received Merak's do to the incompetence of a hatchery. Of course- it is possible. If I finish all my current "fix-em-up" endeavor and still feel something doesn't fit I will take one to get tested for Merak's. Haunted- could this (if they indeed have Merak's) help this investigation? Only ever having chicks from one hatchery which I have a receipt for saying I requested the Merak's vaccine? I am interested on everything that you know on the Mt Healthy / Merak's link.

In the meantime I have hope that they were indeed being sickened by some local toxicity. The lesser of two evils here.

Neither of you questioned my change of food- from Purina to highland naturals right around the same time that they all seemed to stop laying. What do you think- could the food be an issue? Could a hen who has eaten processed food have a digestive system that could not handle the change to a more natural whole mix? I have been mulling this over in my head for some time. I really don't want to switch them back to Purina- but could it help? Would the change of diet just add another stress to them?

Thank you both for your help! I'm glad I decided to post about this. It's nice to know that I have more than one brain working on a solution to this problem

I'm a label reader. Maybe you should compare the 2 labels. I've tried all the feeds around here. While I like Manna, I usually go with Purina because I've not had a problem, while with the others, I've gotten so much feed that already turned to powder, I went back to Purina. Purina stamps the date of manufacture, and it's always fresh. I just make sure they get free range nutrition, and healthy left overs. That should compensate for any feed out there. I have always changed feeds from one day to the next, and never had a problem.

I think the slowing of laying is the same for everyone right now. I've gone from 13 eggs a day to 2 a day. There is twice a year when they hardly lay because of the weather, they don't lay when they have a heavier molt, chickens have a laying cycle. There's a thread here called "How many eggs did you get today?". You might want to follow it and get an idea of what to expect.

 

[lampe731]

My problem doesn't seem to be seasonal. Two of the hens haven't laid since last year.... As for feed I will compare labels. I know the feed from highland is fresh because they make it especially for the group I buy in bulk with. I will compare nutrition facts. I know the protein is higher in my current feed over Purina- but I will check other ingredients.

 

[Haunted55]

I have always seen that hatcheries hatch eggs and ship them out, no broodies, all machines. I have not heard of hatcheries that get chicks in. But I don't know everything, and haven't seen everything. If some get chicks in, they could have anything, and infect the whole population. Can you educate me?

I do remember a few years ago that one of the hatcheries had a problem with chicks dying early, but they researched it and replaced people's chicks.

It was a joke Seminolewind...what he meant was from the layers to the brooder. There was never any implication of the hens hatching out the eggs. If he had said that, I would have been wondering myself and have treated anything said to me as a wonderful fantasy to enjoy or not.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
Oh, for Lord's sake.

 

[Haunted55]

Oh, for Lord's sake.

http://www.caes.uga.edu/Publications/pubDetail.cfm?pk_id=7467

Here's something to really ponder. When I saw this and read through it...it talks about Salmonella but it's a darned scary thing. I've got another one, some place that talks about the NM outbreak this year and how if one hatchery can't fill their orders, they turn to another one and get their birds from them. Now, that not only maddens me, it really, really makes me glad my flock is now closed. To think you are making a purchase from a hatchery you know and trust and then read this? Lol, yeah, buyer beware!

 

[lampe731]

Not sure if you guys are following this anymore but I did want to let you know that Nugget died about a week after my last post. It was heartbreaking because she has started looking and acting better- and then she just completely stopped eating.

I now have another sick hen (Betty). Swollen abdomen. I've been giving her olive oil in both ways trying to clear any blockage. She is still acting normal- but is eating less every day. Again- she hasn't laid in well over a year. They have been getting ACV in their water since Nugget got sick.

Why???

What is this??

I'm so disheartened. I got chickens to enjoy and have fun and now I just feel like I in a constant state of fear of death and death.