HOA issue

[Gosanke]

Hate HOAs refuse to live in one although all these new "community/neighborhoods" seem to have these "rules". I hear your argument but "caged birds" don't mean chickens. Chickens are "poultry", I've had my fights with HOAs, here in Hawaii it's CCRS. Now I ask, can I have chickens & a boat (Hubby) when I find out there's "rules".

Here's a good one, one of the newer subdivisions in our area has CCRS that say no chain link fencing. So this homeowner put up "hog wire" fencing around his property, lined it with palms and hedging. He was called on the carpet by the CCRS, his argument was it's not chain link. Now they clarified that by amending it to say "privacy fence" only but he's "grandfathered" so far he's good with his fence. Love his natural line of hedging, can't see the wire fence.

So you could "fight" the issue that your chickens are "caged" & not running free. That they don't smell & there's no crowing, they're your pets with benefits. You also need to check what your city/county ordinances say about chickens, it helps. I'd also install the tallest PRIVACY fence allowed. Good luck

the city code enforcer already came out after the back neighbor complained and found no issue with my coop + run + chickens.

Steve

 

[Gosanke]

Is there possibly any other clause in regards to livestock or farm animals?

Either way you have an uphill battle, even if you win the 'small cage animals' clause all they need to do is have a hearing and rule that your chickens are a nuisance (very openly broad term) and are thus prohibited now that someone has complained...

> hearing and rule that your chickens are a nuisance (very openly broad term) and are thus prohibited now that someone has complained...

you make it sounds like I can complain a neighbor dog is nuisane and the board would vote to get rid of the dog without a need to see the evidence. I hardly think that the case.

Steve

 

[Gosanke]

I forgot to ask what exactly they are citing you for and if your HOA has the ability to fine you for violations???

the hoa letter is kinda general. asking me to remove livestock and the building structure. nothing specific about chicken or chicken coop.

i haven't read all the cc&r yet but I am sure there might be some clause on fine after found non-compliance.

Steve

 

[KYTinpusher]

It looks to me that they must have a hearing on the matter before they can enforce a request for you to get rid of your chickens. I would request a hearing, in writing, by a certified letter. Then start right now preparing for it by reading through the posts of others who have had to convince their HOA to allow chickens. If you can afford it, get an attorney, preferably before requesting the hearing. You can't win if you don't fight.

 

[Gosanke]

My HOA has a rule specifically against keeping poultry, so I extensively quizzed the fellow in charge of issuing citations before I started building my coop. He is actually sympathetic to keeping chickens even though its "against the rules" so he gave me tips for getting away with it.

The chickens cannot be visible from off your property. The person issuing the citation has see the chickens with their own eyes and if they have to trespass onto your property to see the offense its automatic grounds for dismissal, unless you invited them onto your property or if there is a clause in your contract with the HOA allowing their representatives onto your property.
Citations cannot be issued simply by a neighbors hear say. A neighbors complaint can cause them to send someone out but if they can't substantiate the claim they cannot cite you.
Hearing what sounds like a chicken without visual conformation is not enough prof for a citation of keeping poultry, although the sounds can be enough to break noise ordnance's and they can give a citation for that. He suggested not keeping rooster and/or getting no crow collars for both roo's and very loud hens.
If the chickens cannot be seen or heard from off the property but the HOA knows you have chickens and still want to go after you, they have to prove a health and safety violation is occurring on your property which is a LOT of hassle so if the HOA is taking it to that point they either think action is needed and warranted or you really ****** someone off on the board and they want to make things hard for you.

At the end of our conversation he boiled his tips down to;
keep them out of sight
Keep noise as low as possible
don't invite HOA representitives or employees onto your property or tell them you keep chickens

If he catches me flagrantly breaking the rules or if I tell him I'm currently keeping chickens he will have to cite me, however I'm welcome to give him extra eggs as long as I don't let him know where they came from.

I don't know what your Protective Covenants allow, but I think he gave me enough good information that it can be applied to most HOA's

Good luck

thanks for the tips. I have the pad lock installed from day1 when I started the coop building and I block all viewable from all angles. once would have to jump my fence to see my birds.

Steve

 

[Gosanke]

It looks to me that they must have a hearing on the matter before they can enforce a request for you to get rid of your chickens. I would request a hearing, in writing, by a certified letter. Then start right now preparing for it by reading through the posts of others who have had to convince their HOA to allow chickens. If you can afford it, get an attorney, preferably before requesting the hearing. You can't win if you don't fight.

yes, I do plan to lawyer up for the hearing.

steve

 

[MeepBeep]

Is there possibly any other clause in regards to livestock or farm animals?


Either way you have an uphill battle, even if you win the 'small cage animals' clause all they need to do is have a hearing and rule that your chickens are a nuisance (very openly broad term) and are thus prohibited now that someone has complained...

>  hearing and rule that your chickens are a nuisance (very openly broad term) and are thus prohibited now that someone has complained...

you make it sounds like I can complain a neighbor dog is nuisane and the board would vote to get rid of the dog without a need to see the evidence.  I hardly think that the case.

That is exactly the way it's written whether you believe it to be the case or not...

So yes, theoretically you could complain about a neighbors dog and the board could hold a hearing and vote to force removal of the dog, it's clearly written to allow that to happen and give the voting members the power to do so... It's deliberately written like that so the HoA has the upper hand and power to control what you can and can't have based on the current views of those with a vote and not limit them strictly based on a spelled out written prohibition... I'm sure if did some further research, if not your HoA another HoA with similar wording has used clauses like that to force people to get rid of dogs that they deemed a nuisance as well as other animals... The entire rule and it's reach rest upon the attitude of those voting at any given time, not in the text...

I know that is not what you want to hear, but I'm not going to try and twist it into something you want to hear when I believe the opposite to be true...

 

[carlf]

This is why HOAs are such ******** in most cases.
**** sure gt your hearing
If you loses, start filing nuisnace complaints on every barking dog you hear and outside cat that walks into your yard.

 

[bantamrooster]

If you loses, start filing nuisnace complaints on every barking dog you hear and outside cat that walks into your yard.

LOL
Ya throw a temper tantrum and take it out on all your neighbors if you dont get your way.
That will make things all better not to mention how pleasant life there will be after pissing off the hoa and everyone around you.
Great call

 

[Gosanke]

That is exactly the way it's written whether you believe it to be the case or not...

So yes, theoretically you could complain about a neighbors dog and the board could hold a hearing and vote to force removal of the dog, it's clearly written to allow that to happen and give the voting members the power to do so... It's deliberately written like that so the HoA has the upper hand and power to control what you can and can't have based on the current views of those with a vote and not limit them strictly based on a spelled out written prohibition... I'm sure if did some further research, if not your HoA another HoA with similar wording has used clauses like that to force people to get rid of dogs that they deemed a nuisance as well as other animals... The entire rule and it's reach rest upon the attitude of those voting at any given time, not in the text...

I know that is not what you want to hear, but I'm not going to try and twist it into something you want to hear when I believe the opposite to be true...

I hear you but your reasoning miss out due of process.

Steve