Hoarding/hiding rare and threatened breeds - Why?

[EmtheFishLady]

Quote:

Put me on your waiting list Spook. I want some of those!






I personally won't sell anything I don't think is "Right". I also have very high standards for what I consider right. This goes for fish or birds. Many people might think it's great, perfect, and be very happy with it...but if I'm not, I'm not selling it. Most of the best points have been made above.

 

[mississippifarmboy]

Quote:
This.

I am currently working with a few rare breeds myself. I almost never sell any of these breeds because I'm a perfectionist. Until I can breed them several generations, with at least the majority of the offspring looking uniform and to the breed standard - I will not offer them for sale except to the people I think are willing to accept that they are a "project" at this point and are dedicated to improving the breed.

As for cull rates to get perfection? Last year I hatched over 1500 birds and of one of the breeds I have 10 that I considered worth breeding in the spring. Admittedly, I gave about half of these away, but I hatch at least 100 of every breed we raise each year and have never kept more than a dozen for future breeders. Sometimes out of a hundred I'll keep maybe two or three. The rest we sell locally to folks to eat or eat them ourselves. I "might" sell a few pairs or trios of grown birds that I had saved back, but for some reason didn't make the final cut.

With that being said, I'm not hiding, don't mind a bit people knowing I raise them, and I spend several hours a week answering PMs, emails and letters about them. I just do not advertise nor do I go around bragging, because there is no reason to. Advertising is a waste of time and money if I don't have anythng to sell, and bragging is wrong until I get something worth bragging about.

Are these rare breeds valuable? Of course they are. I've had people all over the USA and from several other countries contact me about my birds. But I know they are not right yet, and I refuse to try and push them off as "wonderful stock". I'm so poor I'm ashamed to admit how far below the poverty level we live and Lord knows I'd love to get to the point where my years of hard work and breeding would start paying off financially. But at the end of the day I have to look myself in the mirror and I intend to not be ashamed of the man looking back at me.

Just my personal reason for "hoarding".

 

[theotherranch]

Well said, mississippifarmboy!!!!!!!!1

 

[silkielover5]

i had some friends with a trio of rare birds and some chicks. they had them in their garage. and then they had 600 hatchery chicks they would sell to the public. one day they went shopping came home and reliezed the trio and the chicks were stolen. they think someone baught chicks from them and saw the rare ones in the corner and came back for them.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Quote:
This.
...Just my personal reason for "hoarding".

Good luck to you farmboy.
I appreciate the insight.

I understand the numbers you're talking about but another question to you. I've talked to people that talk about crossing in some other breed (for whatever reason) and then work to get the new traits out. That seems like a complete waste of time. What do you think?

 

[mississippifarmboy]

Quote:
This.
...Just my personal reason for "hoarding".

Good luck to you farmboy.
I appreciate the insight.

I understand the numbers you're talking about but another question to you. I've talked to people that talk about crossing in some other breed (for whatever reason) and then work to get the new traits out. That seems like a complete waste of time. What do you think?

Humm, that is sort of a loaded question, but I'll do my best to answer.

In my opinion, 95% of all breeds, if you need to improve the breed you should just buy better birds. I noticed you have buff Orpingtons as I do. Using these as an example, if I had stock I wasn't happy with I'd search and find the very best stock I could from the best breeders and start with the best stock I could afford. Crossing in another breed to improve size, type or color would be going backwards, or in plain talk... just sorta stupid.

So I agree with you, it's a total waste of time.

On the other hand you have breeds where there is no "perfect" stock availible. I'll use standard spangled Russian Orloffs for an example, as that is one of the breeds I'm currently working on. I started by buying stock from the best breeders I could find both some here on BYC and a local breeder, added in some hatchery stock too, just to see what was best. I raised hundreds of birds from both chicks and hatching eggs. I quickly saw the hatchery birds were speckled Sussex with an incorrect comb.

Next I raised the best of the birds from each breeder seperatly until I had a small flock of each. Each strain had both pluses and minuses. I then started crossing strains, growing them out, and comparing them to the parent strains. Some showed improvement, so I continued them. Other crosses of strains were dead ends or duds. These I ate. I have finally, just this year, hit the jackpot. I've got a few that are looking very close to the early 1900's SOP. Took years and thousands of expermental breedings and birds to get to this point.

Now I have a problem with my project. I have a bird that in my opinion is as good as any in this country. But they are too small. I want a 9 pound rooster and can never top 7 pounds, usually closer to 6 pounds. So for now I'm hatching early in the year and trying to just breed for size, but if in a couple more years this doesn't get me to my goal I will buy a good Malay or Shamo stag and breed into a new strain to get the final size and "stance" of the old SOP. I will have to do a lot of work then to perfect the comb, adjust the type, polish the colors up, etc. It will take several more generations to be sure they breed true to the final form. So in a case like that? I can understand crossing in another breed.

I think I made a mess of trying to answer that one.

Sorry, I tried.

btw, four of the six best breeders I know of raising spangled Russian Orloffs are registered here on BYC, two of which are pretty active and if you will watch the auctions... sometimes sell hatching eggs.

 

[dainerra]

farmboy, do you inbreed your stock?
That is a very good way to set traits that you want. Start several strains at once and continue the in-breeding for several generations and then cross the strains back together once you start seeing degradation in the stock (I think about 9 generations is what I've usually heard). The purpose is that in-breeding increases prepotency - the ability to pass on your good genes to offspring.

For anyone who hasn't done this, you pick the absolute best animal you can find and then find a match that compliments. Ruthlessly cull the offspring and breed the best rooster back to the mother and the best hen back to the father. Then breed the best hen in 3rd generation back to original roo. Best roo back to hen. etc etc
Have at least 3 groups going at once so that when you start getting degradation you have ready stock to cross into the bloodlines.

Sorry, am doing some GSD background research and am studying up on creating foundation stock

 

[mississippifarmboy]

Quote:
I do line breed. Most breeders do.

 

[Matthew3590]

My friend who we get goats from time to time always says if it goes bad it is inbreeding if it goes good then it is line breeding. kind of funny.

 

[redhen]

Because they can make more money that way.,..
The more people that have the breed, the cheaper it will eventually become to own one..(we've seen this with several breeds already in the few years i have been on this forum..)
If they "horde" the breed.. they can pretty much sell it for top dollar for a loooong time..

ETA: Not EVERY breeder is like this though... and i'm NOT talking about anyone specific..