hoping someone can explain...

[sawilliams]

The finer details of genetics for me...

Lavender Orpington roo over mixed flock.

The flock it's self is down to 11 hens, 4 cinnimon queens 5 ee from white to black a bard and red mix and a buff colored mix. There was also a production red egg in the hatch but she has passed on

Ok so of the ones that hatched

I got a lavender ee chick from my cream colored ee mom, this egg was laid seperatly a she was in injury confinement at the time.

3 black ee chicks (one had a brown face) from my all white and 2 multi colored ee moms. The egg from the black didn't hatch her eggs are more olive then blue and easy to identify.

So my first question is why did I get a lavender from the cream ee but a black from the white ee?

One chick hatch white, its mostly white with like a cream yellow on its head. I believe based on the egg it hatched from it was one of the cinnamon queen hens. This one is feathering out white right now but has a few (I mean very few) spots of black in its down so I do suspect some black to pull through.

But question 2 how does lavender over cinnamon queen pull white? I didn't expect a white chick. I didn't expect a lavender either but was hoping both lighter ee would be lavender... I have another set of eggs setting, but honestly this is just for fun I'm not trying to get anything perticular just adding to the flock a little.

Anyways heres the picture of the current 6 chicks they are about 2 weeks old.

Edit to add 1 chick was black from the production red, her eggs were also easy to identify by her shade of brown. Black was expected for this chick.

 

[Sneebsey]

White is normal to expect from your Cinnamon Queen; they look to be a RSL of sorts, with dominant white turning any black pigment to white. Crossed with your Lavender cockerel, which ought to be on an extended black or birchen (with melanisers) base, you ought to get a largely white bird; the chick should start to get some black and orange patches as it grows.

The Lavender from the EE is interesting; have you got pictures of the mother of that particular chick, as I feel like it might actually be blue. If it is Lavender, the mother has to either be Lavender or carry Lavender unseen (one copy of the gene).

Lavender requires two copies of the gene to express, unlike Dominant White. This means that both parents have to have at least one copy to pass on to the chick.

The sample size is too small to be certain, but with regards to your white coloured EE throwing black chicks, this could be caused by Recessive White, which is far better at covering up any pigment than Dominant white, but, like Lavender, requires two copies of the gene to express. It could just be that they each have one copy of Dominant White and are simply not passing it on to these particular chicks, however.

Pictures of the parents would be helpful, particularly of the EE hens.

 

[sawilliams]

White is normal to expect from your Cinnamon Queen; they look to be a RSL of sorts, with dominant white turning any black pigment to white. Crossed with your Lavender cockerel, which ought to be on an extended black or birchen (with melanisers) base, you ought to get a largely white bird; the chick should start to get some black and orange patches as it grows.

The Lavender from the EE is interesting; have you got pictures of the mother of that particular chick, as I feel like it might actually be blue. If it is Lavender, the mother has to either be Lavender or carry Lavender unseen (one copy of the gene).

Lavender requires two copies of the gene to express, unlike Dominant White. This means that both parents have to have at least one copy to pass on to the chick.

The sample size is too small to be certain, but with regards to your white coloured EE throwing black chicks, this could be caused by Recessive White, which is far better at covering up any pigment than Dominant white, but, like Lavender, requires two copies of the gene to express. It could just be that they each have one copy of Dominant White and are simply not passing it on to these particular chicks, however.

Pictures of the parents would be helpful, particularly of the EE hens.

Thank you I have some pictures but will have to do that later today

 

[nicalandia]

How does lavender over cinnamon queen pull white? I didn't expect a white chick..

Most if not all Lavender Phenotype birds are based on Extended black, so they are All black with recessive Lavender diluting the Black to a lavender like color.. Their Phenotype genetic make up is(Simplified for educational purposes) E/E(Extended Black) co+/co+(non columbian restricted) lav/lav(lavender) i+/i+(non dominant white/black)

Cinnamon queen are Red Columbian based birds like Rhode Island Red birds but with dominant white turning the black feathers to white(not many black feathers to turn white because they are mostly red due to the columbian restriction effect of the Co restrictor) Their Phenotype genetic make up is(Simplified for educational purposes) eWh/eWh(Wheaten) Co/Co(Columbian restricted) Lav+/Lav+(non lavender) I/I(Dominant White)

The result of such cross is E/eWh(Black Chick down) Co/co+(heterozygous Columbian restricted, will show gold/golden feathers on breast) Lav+/lav(heterozygous for recessive Lavender) I/id+(heterozygous Dominant White) what this means is that the chicks down will be white(with some black flecks on it) due to heterozygous Dominant White, the bird will grow to be mostly white whith some black flecks on the body and gold/golden feathers on the breat due to the restrictor effect of columbian, basically a dominant white version of the black sex links(on pullets) but with dominant white turning them white

 

[sawilliams]

So these are all my ee hens. All the eggs out to hatch where collected the same day and set aside. There where 5 of 5 ee eggs. With expection of the possibly 1 laying late the night before and again the next day each eggs should belong to one of each of the hens.

Hen #1 mama was in injury confinement her egg was marked before being added to the group. Her egg hatched the lavender chick. She is a white sandy or cream color all over

The next 3 are the suspected moms of the other 3 ee hatches. The egg colors are almost identical and i can not tell who's is whos. I do appologize for aprons my ee are the only ones that seem to have difficulty with the rooster mounting

#2 all white, she may look a little sandy but that is dirt she is white with no other color

#3 this on is more orange-brown/black very pretty almost laces/speckled look

#4 I'm most excited to see if I can figure which this one mothered she's a very soft brown almost gold but with lavender or blue on her under feathers and even split on some of the main. Ill have to get a pic is liked one side of the feather is lav and the other is gold

#5 this is my ee that her egg did not hatch. She is a mixed breed as in ee mixed to another type. She has a single comb and was not expected to lay olive eggs but i know hers by color as hers are darker then the others

 

[Sneebsey]

The first hen is very interesting; her cream colour could be caused by Lavender, as it also effects gold pigment, however she could also be a myriad of other genotypes to get that look, using dominant white or an off-colour splash phenotype; I'd be interested to see how her future offspring turn out, and how the 'Lavender' chick feathers out; I still suspect it may turn out blue.

If your white hen is white with no other colours at all, she may well be recessive white, hence her producing black chicks when paired to a male with no genes for recessive white.

With the other two hens' chicks, you should start to see some gold pigment in the head and neck in particular as the chicks feather out; the darker hen appears to be on a wildtype base, and the lighter looks to be wheaten.

 

[The Moonshiner]

I think @Sneebsey has covered it all.
Great posts.
All I can add is that I also suspect the one chick is blue.

 

[sawilliams]

I think @Sneebsey has covered it all.
Great posts.
All I can add is that I also suspect the one chick is blue.

blue how? I thought blue was different gene. Are you saying it's a blue/lav split with the blue showing? where would blue come from? I have no blues in my flock unless it's hidden in the black hen. The chick is the same color as the rooster. I'll get a pic of the chick for you

 

[sawilliams]

 

[The Moonshiner]

From the hen.
With her not showing any type of black, blue or lavender and with the white she could be any of that underneath.
Black don't hide blue. The blue would show.
White does hide black and in turn blue, splash or lavender.
The chick looks blue not lavender to me.
With EEs being a mix of colors and patterns its pretty hard to know what they will produce or which ones produced what.
You can narrow it down by what genetics show, make an educated guess, just plain guess or you may never figure it out.