Hormonal Implanta and Bumblefoot. My gal can’t catch a break.

[amaugans]

Is your vet using deslorelin implants? We have had huge success with them. My hen at almost 3 started having trouble laying, ended up with egg yolk peritonitis in which she developed a heart murmur from! We treated with Clavamox for 30 days, deslorelin implant and now she is all better. The implant can last 6 months - 1 year. For my girl it lasted 8 months and then she needed another. Highly recommend for those people who do not want to cull/euthanize their hens with reproductive issues !

 

[Runner duck mom]

So very sorry to hear you are going through this with your girl. It is stressful and exhausting taking care of them and not always knowing what is the best answer/ treatment. On top of all that there are trips to the vet and it can get expensive.
One of our girls got sick a few months ago, stopped eating and we almost lost her. The vet found a large mass in her reproductive tract that was pushing all of her organs out of place. She had issues laying eggs for months, some eggs were normal but many were soft with no shell. We were able to fix the issue with antibiotics and she seems happy and healthy now, though I know these issues will probably resurface in the future. We also dont want her to lay any more eggs to prevent further issues and glad to know this implant may help.
We also had what we thought was a bumblefoot issue, @Miss Lydia helped so much. Turned out to be something totally different but the warm water/ epsom salt soaks 2x a day made a huge difference, our girls feet looked great after just a week or so, any scabs she had went away.
I know I felt pretty down so many times when our babies were sick, it was awful but you will get through it. Youre doing everything you can and I hope your girl makes a full recovery.

 

[austroberta]

So, my sweet year and a half old Loretta has been struggling with her molt, laying goofy thin and rough eggs, had a blood feather break, is getting overbred by her brother (not biological) and now has Bumblefoot on both feet. .

I brought her to the vet this morning and they took blood, did X-rays and prescribed Silver Sulfadiazine for the feet. My vet said her ovary was huge, which tells her she is extremely hormonal and this is likely why she is taking so long with her molt and why she is just struggling in general. She says that if her bloodwork looks good, a hormonal implant is our best shot at having her live a healthy good life. Loretta is my baby girl. I’d do anything for her. I’m so concerned because her sister, Whitebeard died while attempting to get an implant under anesthesia. She was sick at the time with a nasty prolapsed cloaca at least and likely deeper prolapse. My vet says they can do it under sedation instead, because I will never put another duck under after that. But, I’m wondering if anyone has done this? They say it lasts six months, and this can jumpstart her system so that if she lays again, it has a chance to be more healthy laying. There’s also a risk she’ll never lay again, which my vet doesn’t think is a bad thing. I’m over eating the eggs at this point, and just want her to be ok.

My questions are 1.) is treating Bumblefoot with daily epsom soaks and silver Sulfadiazine gonna do the trick? And
2.) does anyone have experience with these implants who can help me feel better about this being an option? And
3.) any good ideas to clam my drake down so they can coexist again peacefully (right now, have a divider in coop, have them taking turns in pond, and watching them outside. He seems to only try to mate when in water or after waking up in the Morning.

That’s a lot, I know. I’m just so bummed. I’m literally maxing out credit cards on these ducks, and I don’t mind, but I need to be sure it’s the right thing to do.

Thanks!

My duck has had those black scabs since July and we've been soaking them since then. We discovered the bumbles when we took her to the vet for another issue (corneal abrasion). Since then, we had a nightly routine of soaking her feet in espsom salt and then covering the black scabs with neosporin and a large bandaid before shuttling her off to bed for the night. I was starting to get really nervous about the long lapse of time and feeling that I was just spinning my wheels with the Epsom salt, so I took her to a different vet to get her checked. This vet looked at them and said that she didn't see a need for surgery. She said that what I saw as swelling could likely be scar tissue and the 'bumbles' might not ever go away. As far as Epsom salt was concerned, she said that since my duck's foot was not showing signs of inflammation (redness, heat), the epsom salt soaks were probably not going to do anything, as that's what epsom salt is supposed to help with (inflammation). I felt uncomfortable with her assessment, but then at the same time, during this past 3+ months, the swelling has not increased, my duck has zero lameness/difficult walking issues, she is acting/drinking/eating normally, and her foot has zero redness. I would think that in that long span of time, something would have materialized: Either more swelling, more redness, etc.

She did initially get a round of NSaids and antibiotics (which were prescribed for her corneal abrasion) and her foot was hot when we first started the soaks/meds. After the meds, her foot has not been warm to the touch.

I am watching her like a hawk, giving her good nutritional support (including nutri drench and homemade apple cider vinegar with the mother) and am ready to take her back to the vet if I see even a hint of redness/inflammation, changes in behavior. I am concerned about bone infection, but for now, I feel a little better after seeing the second vet.

I'm not quite sure what stage your duck's feet are in, but I can tell you that in my case, by duck didn't get much worse when I decided that I didn't want to cut her foot open (I just didn't think there was any way I could keep an open wound clean and that the cure was going to be worse than the disease.)

 

[Urban Waddler]

Is your vet using deslorelin implants? We have had huge success with them. My hen at almost 3 started having trouble laying, ended up with egg yolk peritonitis in which she developed a heart murmur from! We treated with Clavamox for 30 days, deslorelin implant and now she is all better. The implant can last 6 months - 1 year. For my girl it lasted 8 months and then she needed another. Highly recommend for those people who do not want to cull/euthanize their hens with reproductive issues !

Yes, that is the implant, thank you!

 

[Urban Waddler]

So very sorry to hear you are going through this with your girl. It is stressful and exhausting taking care of them and not always knowing what is the best answer/ treatment. On top of all that there are trips to the vet and it can get expensive.
One of our girls got sick a few months ago, stopped eating and we almost lost her. The vet found a large mass in her reproductive tract that was pushing all of her organs out of place. She had issues laying eggs for months, some eggs were normal but many were soft with no shell. We were able to fix the issue with antibiotics and she seems happy and healthy now, though I know these issues will probably resurface in the future. We also dont want her to lay any more eggs to prevent further issues and glad to know this implant may help.
We also had what we thought was a bumblefoot issue, @Miss Lydia helped so much. Turned out to be something totally different but the warm water/ epsom salt soaks 2x a day made a huge difference, our girls feet looked great after just a week or so, any scabs she had went away.
I know I felt pretty down so many times when our babies were sick, it was awful but you will get through it. Youre doing everything you can and I hope your girl makes a full recovery.

Thank you so much! We tried the implant and she stopped laying. Her bumblefoot looks static now and not worrisome according to our vet. She got through her molt and seems a lot happier. That said, she started limping (not affecting her mobility), and vet thinks it’s possibly nerve related or that the Inflammation in ovary is affecting her leg and wants to do more xrays . It’s all so stressful but she seems so much happier since the implant and otherwise healthy. We have to sedate her when she gets X-rays so I’m reluctant to do so, as we lost one of our birds under sedation. I’m happy she is doing so well otherwise and trying to make a decision on next steps for the limp. Thanks again!

 

[Runner duck mom]

So glad your girl is starting to feel better its good to know you don't have to worry about egg issues now and shes going into winter with a new set of feathers.
Our girl had started to molt as well and when she got sick she stopped, weeks later when she was feeling better she resumed her molt (including all wing feathers). I don't know for sure but I'm guessing her body just couldnt handle being sick and growing new feathers at the same time. Seems to be a good sign for your girl as well
Sedation makes me nervous too, Hopefully they can figure out whats causing he limp and then no more trips to the vet for a very long while.

 

[Urban Waddler]

So glad your girl is starting to feel better its good to know you don't have to worry about egg issues now and shes going into winter with a new set of feathers.
Our girl had started to molt as well and when she got sick she stopped, weeks later when she was feeling better she resumed her molt (including all wing feathers). I don't know for sure but I'm guessing her body just couldnt handle being sick and growing new feathers at the same time. Seems to be a good sign for your girl as well
Sedation makes me nervous too, Hopefully they can figure out whats causing he limp and then no more trips to the vet for a very long while.

Thank you!!! She still has a little limp but otherwise seems happy...still pondering sedation, but giving her a little more time before I decide.

 

[KaleIAm]

Oh, I wish I had seen this when you first posted. I do have experience with the hormonal implant. Two of my ducks have had it. The vets were able to give it to my ducks without sedation or anesthesia. I have also successfully treated bumblefoot, with veterinary help.

I very much relate to your feeling of, "can't my girl get a break!?" I feel like that regularly.

My duck, Gingersnap, was on the implant for about a year to help reproductive issues. She was getting continually egg bound, like every few days. She would pass the egg, with anti inflammatory drugs, warm baths, and calcium supplementation, but of course it was painful and would happen again a couple days later. The implant would work for about 2.5 months, and then she would get egg bound again. Ginger passing away because of a severe respiratory infection, but we did keep the implant up every 2.5 months and it helped with her reproductive issues tremendously.

Thimbleberry has also had reproductive issues for most of her life. We have regularly contemplated giving her the implant, or even spaying her, but have been able to keep her issues mostly under control with "lifestlye." I would talk with your vet before implementing this protocol, but our vet recommended this for us and it has worked repeatedly anytime Thimble has had issues. Basically she is only allowed to eat scratch (Though... I also give her one cherry tomato and one mealworm a day), she has a strict 10 hour daylight schedule, and we move the stuff around in her sleeping room/aviary regularly. Doing this tricks her body into thinking it is not a good time to be reproductive because: there is not enough food, it is not the right season, and there might be hurricanes about.

Thimbleberry has also had a lot of problems with bumblefoot in the past. For treating it my vet gave me chlorhexidine soap (basically broadspectrum antibacterial/antifungal soap). It was challenging to wash her feet and not get her feathers soapy. I cut a hole in a plastic bag and put one foot at a time in it (like a surgical drape) and washed and rinsed her foot off really well. Fortunately she is quite cooperative and will just lay in my lap on her back while I mess with her feet. Otherwise I would have had to wrap her in a towel or have someone else hold her. After the washing I was instructed to pat her feet dry and apply SSD (silver sulfadiazine). Then they told me to wrap her feet in gauze and vet wrap. Thimble is really good at destroying shoes made of vet wrap, so I bought duck boots for her. I slip them on after the SSD cream. They velcro close at the top, and I just secure them with a little strip of vet wrap.

I think having a duck wearing a shoe all day probably works well in a not real life setting - I quickly found out that if Thimble drinks water and lifts her head the water runs down her neck and body and into her shoes. Then her feet are wet and muddy all day. It doesn't take long for the skin to get pruny. I just couldn't leave her in soggy shoes all day, so I let her run around barefoot during the day. I did the washing, patting dry, and applying the cream twice daily. At night I put on her boots. They keep the medicine on her sores and provide cushioning. I really recommend the boots. I got the neoprene closed toe boots from http://www.partyfowlpets.com/shop They worked really well for me and Thimbleberry. I got two pairs so that I could wash and dry one pair while Thimble was wearing the other.

Thimble also seemed to be in pain, she was limping a little and holding one foot up often. So our vet prescribed metacam. She also prescribed an antibiotic once, and didn't another time when it wasn't so bad.

The other thing my vet recommended was preventing bumblefoot in the first place. I was using pine or aspen bedding in their sleeping room in our barn. She told me to have only dirt or grass in their aviary and to use only hay or straw for bedding. I have to change out the hay or straw weekly, because it does mold if I leave it for a few weeks. It isn't as easy to spot clean like the pine bedding. But... I haven't had bumblefoot once since doing that. It is worth the extra labor and cost to me.

Sorry this is so long. I wasn't sure what you might find useful!

 

[Urban Waddler]

Oh, I wish I had seen this when you first posted. I do have experience with the hormonal implant. Two of my ducks have had it. The vets were able to give it to my ducks without sedation or anesthesia. I have also successfully treated bumblefoot, with veterinary help.

I very much relate to your feeling of, "can't my girl get a break!?" I feel like that regularly.

My duck, Gingersnap, was on the implant for about a year to help reproductive issues. She was getting continually egg bound, like every few days. She would pass the egg, with anti inflammatory drugs, warm baths, and calcium supplementation, but of course it was painful and would happen again a couple days later. The implant would work for about 2.5 months, and then she would get egg bound again. Ginger passing away because of a severe respiratory infection, but we did keep the implant up every 2.5 months and it helped with her reproductive issues tremendously.

Thimbleberry has also had reproductive issues for most of her life. We have regularly contemplated giving her the implant, or even spaying her, but have been able to keep her issues mostly under control with "lifestlye." I would talk with your vet before implementing this protocol, but our vet recommended this for us and it has worked repeatedly anytime Thimble has had issues. Basically she is only allowed to eat scratch (Though... I also give her one cherry tomato and one mealworm a day), she has a strict 10 hour daylight schedule, and we move the stuff around in her sleeping room/aviary regularly. Doing this tricks her body into thinking it is not a good time to be reproductive because: there is not enough food, it is not the right season, and there might be hurricanes about.

Thimbleberry has also had a lot of problems with bumblefoot in the past. For treating it my vet gave me chlorhexidine soap (basically broadspectrum antibacterial/antifungal soap). It was challenging to wash her feet and not get her feathers soapy. I cut a hole in a plastic bag and put one foot at a time in it (like a surgical drape) and washed and rinsed her foot off really well. Fortunately she is quite cooperative and will just lay in my lap on her back while I mess with her feet. Otherwise I would have had to wrap her in a towel or have someone else hold her. After the washing I was instructed to pat her feet dry and apply SSD (silver sulfadiazine). Then they told me to wrap her feet in gauze and vet wrap. Thimble is really good at destroying shoes made of vet wrap, so I bought duck boots for her. I slip them on after the SSD cream. They velcro close at the top, and I just secure them with a little strip of vet wrap.

I think having a duck wearing a shoe all day probably works well in a not real life setting - I quickly found out that if Thimble drinks water and lifts her head the water runs down her neck and body and into her shoes. Then her feet are wet and muddy all day. It doesn't take long for the skin to get pruny. I just couldn't leave her in soggy shoes all day, so I let her run around barefoot during the day. I did the washing, patting dry, and applying the cream twice daily. At night I put on her boots. They keep the medicine on her sores and provide cushioning. I really recommend the boots. I got the neoprene closed toe boots from http://www.partyfowlpets.com/shop They worked really well for me and Thimbleberry. I got two pairs so that I could wash and dry one pair while Thimble was wearing the other.

Thimble also seemed to be in pain, she was limping a little and holding one foot up often. So our vet prescribed metacam. She also prescribed an antibiotic once, and didn't another time when it wasn't so bad.

The other thing my vet recommended was preventing bumblefoot in the first place. I was using pine or aspen bedding in their sleeping room in our barn. She told me to have only dirt or grass in their aviary and to use only hay or straw for bedding. I have to change out the hay or straw weekly, because it does mold if I leave it for a few weeks. It isn't as easy to spot clean like the pine bedding. But... I haven't had bumblefoot once since doing that. It is worth the extra labor and cost to me.

Sorry this is so long. I wasn't sure what you might find useful!

Thank you so very much for this very informative reply! I use aspen shaving in the coop, but clean it nightly making sure it is clean and dry and both ducks sleep in straw nests. Even my boy duck, Wesley, loves to make a nest. The bumblefoot seems to be getting much better right now. Do you know what it is about pine shavings that is bad for their feet? Also, what exactly is scratch fees? Is that like the seed medley given to chickens?

I have heard about limiting food or changing diet, but right now I keep Loretta on a Max 16% duck feed and do regularly give her treats like mealworms, lettuce, blueberries, etc.

We got her implant on September 10th. I do hope it lasts longer than a couple months.

oddly, Wesley stopped mating her completely for the last couple of months, and just recently has started to again every morning. I’m so worried that’s a sign of something bad. She seems like such a happy duck right now aside from a little limp, that I’d hate to do anything to mess stuff up. I think Loretta has to be sedated because she’s a very stubborn duck. She is loving and kind and comes when called, loves her snuggles, but if she doesn’t want to do something, she has a heck of an attitude.

My vet seems to think we should sedate her and check to see if her ovary is still large and possibly causing the limp due to nerve pain. The thing is that it seems to slowly be getting better and Metacam didn’t have any effect on it.

I don’t know. It’s all so stressful. But I thank you so much for your story and help!

 

[KaleIAm]

Scratch is cracked corn, wheat, and lesser amounts of other grains - basically lower in nutritional value and less robust than the layer pellets you would normally want to feed to laying ducks. Yes, usually it is given to chickens.

My vet said the wood chips like aspen or pine bedding aren't soft enough for duck feet. It always seemed soft to me, but she said for much smaller feet it would be like standing barefoot on boards for long periods of time. She explained that straw or hay would be more like their natural environment and cause them less problems. I thought she was wrong, but... I was paying her thousands of dollars so I did what she said and went from constant bumbles to not one bumble in 3 years. So, it is either a remarkable coincidence or she is completely correct.

Is there any chance they can use sevoflurane instead of isoflurane to anesthetize Loretta for radiographs? Sevoflurane is SO much safer. It is also dramatically more expensive, and a lot of vets only carry isoflurane because of the expense. Maybe it is worth asking. I used to work for an exotic animal veterinarian and have experience with the different drugs.

When Gingersnap was getting egg bound the eggs would push on a nerve and make her lame in one leg. Except one time the implant shouldn't have run out yet and she stopped being able to walk, so we did radiographs and found out she had broken her leg. Poor sweetheart. If you did the xrays you might find out something else entirely. We were sure Ginger needed another implant, and the vet was, too, but did radiographs just in case, and were very glad we did. If it is nerve pain your vet can prescribe her gabapentin and that can help. It helped Gingersnap. Though, if she is almost entirely better, I might not do the radiographs either and save my money for another procedure that is probably more important.

I have had Thimble put under anesthesia many times, even for longer surgeries, and she has never had any issues. I'm sorry to hear about your duck who passed away. I would be afraid to have my ducks go under too, if I had that experience. But I think the duck who passed was probably allergic to the anesthetic or very sick and medically fragile, so that any form of sedation would have been too much for her body.

I think they have to use multiple people to hold my ducks down at the vet. I don't really know, they leave me in a different room. Sometimes I hear them quacking angrily, though, so I know they aren't just taking it.

I relate to how stressful it is. I hate making these choices, too. I have an appointment for my other duck, Pigweed, on Saturday for one of her chronic issues and I'll be going through it then.

Regardless of what you do Loretta is very lucky to have you. <3