Horse Breed Rambles Bigger or Better?

[EweSheep]

OK keep it nice in here! This is left off from the Maran thread that got OT. See on this link on the bottom of page 3: https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=155981&p=3

To review what it was said previously, the horse breeds have been going downhill due to fads, money and political reasons. have you seen Arabians looking like Saddlebreds, QH looking like TBs, and Paso Fino horses looking like a fat tank with no recognizable traits in the breeds? All of us have seen it today and this is the forum for your rants and whats going on with the breed and why they did it.

Pasochicken, your stallion is beautiful but I never saw a flea bitten grey. I know of Plebeyo and it was said he was a beautiful horse. The worse Paso I have seen PERSONALLY is Balisarda LTD, nasty a$$ of a horse and glad the owner gelded him before he would do harm to anybody else, no wonder for his stall to be lined with electric fence! Most Pasos today are so darn pumped up and getting the horse on the sounding board and stop there, is a no no and it was all show off! Hated that!

As for Arabians, they dont look like the classic Arabians I used to know and loved. They look like Saddlebreds!

So are the Morgans, looking like a fancy peacock of Saddlebreds rather than the "draft" type that I adore and the head you can tell right off it shows "Morgan"

Now why are the breeds are getting waaaaaaay off from the original classic type of their own?????????????

Place your rants here!

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

A few years back I was looking to buy a horse after my mare had to be put down. My dad wanted a QH, but it seemed like most of the QHs we looked at had HUGE bodies and tiny, tiny feet. Most of these were young horses who would probably go lame early in their career. Personally, if I was going to spend that much money on a horse (we were talking approximately $4,000 each for these horses) I wanted a horse I would be able to use up into its 20's...barring any other medical condition of course!

Its sad that people will breed an animal solely for its looks and many don't even care how well that animal can perform the job it was originally meant to do. A clydesdale on quarterhorse feet would not be able to do any sort of draft work...just as a QH with little tiny pony feet would not be able to perform to its best ability penning cows.

I just don't get how a standard of perfection for an animal can change so much in just a few years. I use QHs as an example because I am the most familiar with them, but you see it in a lot of other breeds as well. Another animal that comes to mind is the collie...in which breeders were breeding for very long slender heads. They were able to get that trait in their dogs, but the dogs were severely retarded due to the small space a "long, thin head" left for their brains.

I am not a breeder, but if I was I know I would be more concerned about producing quality, healthy animals rather than useless ones that are likely to have health issues later on. While they may place well in the show ring, they won't have much of a life IMO!

 

[EweSheep]

Yes my parents had raised and show collies back in the late 70's and early 80's and got out of raising them in the early 90's and strictly got pets only.

Collies are bad and it seems like they are getting to be more like Shelties, which I can not stand it. So called tulip ears, they would even surgically alter them instead of trying to work with the ears to fold or tip over. I dont mind white blazes on their faces but I need the brains and physically well to do the job of herding, not sitting pretty like a statue. Showing dogs was very hard work, hours of prep work and tiring for both dogs and handler or owners alike. Many of them ended up having health problems but fortunately we only go no more than six shows a year. Glad we got out of them and its a big difference than the collies of yesteryears and today. The description you are saying about long thin heads, you do not want to make them look like Borzois (I used to have three of them, they are the love of my life) and who wants a "razor-headed Collie"??? Not me, nor do I like fat, short nosed Collies. UGH!

Yes I agree with you on the QH which in my younger years taking a judging class, I have seen alot of QH with tiny feet (they broke down faster) and QH with HUGE feet, that they would trip on themselves or rough jarring rides. Impressive nerve disease was BAD and at that time, we didnt know why some of the students QHs went down, it was awful to look at. All of them were put down despite of all the treatments being done. Now we know. I love the King, Poco Bueno horses, their type and they were able to withstand the long days of cattle work. None of the "peanut rollers" and it looks unnatural simply because its a show off of how "sight" you pull up your reins or how responsive your QH would be.

I think Three Bars (TB) was the beginning of the QH/TB racing but it would be nice to stick with the old classic and those quarter milers should hack it out without any other breeds infused in it.

Its rare to find TRUE Foundation QH breeders in the US. I have to say, hats off to them to preserve the QH breed itself.

 

[old mill poultry]

I have two foundation quarter horses. One is my red dun stallion cowboy, out of the invester on dams side and dual pep/jetoe out of dads side. He is awesome, very calm and laid back. The easiest horse I have ever owned and trained. If you want a really nice horse go check out the foundation quarter horse lines. There are still foundation breeeders out there. Try http://www.foundationhorses.com/

 

[Foxhound lady]

Personally I think OH, Paints, and Appy all look the same, of wait because they all use the same stallions. It cant be a pure Appy if the father is a QH sorry. As for type they have certianly lost it from the 60's style stocky musclar horse to a leggy thing with tiny feet that cant do what it was bred to do.

As for Arabs, there are still certian lines that look Araby but most are to tall and to refined in the face for my taste and I had an Arab (very smart horse BTW).

 

[patandchickens]

Breeding warmbloods and non-racing-bred TBs for height has really messed them up too; although it seems breeders are more aware of this now, the problem is you still have all these nitwit big-checkbook buyers who think that anything under 17hh is small

Even Lipizzaners have been substantially messed up IMO by attempts to size them up. They are SUPPOSED to be a 14.3ish horse, darnit, grrr.

On a horse listserv that I was on for a long time in the 90s and early part of this decade, we did a survey once where members were polled as to horses they'd had (or known well), what height they were and what age they died at or were euthanized. While not perfect sample methodology, the results were striking and I believe they would hold up in a properly designed study -- horses 15 hh and shorter lived on average MUCH longer and were MUCH less apt to have been euthanized for lameness related reasons (as opposed to natural or other-causes death).

And even QH people now recognize that itty bitty princess feet on a tank of a horse (especially an unfit lard-butt tank of a horse!) is dysfunctional. Although there is still not always a realistic recognition of what a useful size foot looks like, and buyers as always are behind the breeders in this regard.

And how about the homogenization of all the european Warmblood breeds. It used to be you could look at a horse and know what its breeding was likely to be. THey've now (mostly) got 'em all so intercrossed with each other and Thoroughbredized to boot that what's really the difference, most of the time.

Pat

 

[Sammysmom]

I know what you mean about the Morgans. I own several and have bred them in the past. For my breeding program, I always went back to the old foundation blood whenever possible. I cannot stand how other breeders have tried to ruin this beautiful and historic breed. Some of the most famous show horses have hackney and saddlebred blood. Blood that was used and then the donor met with a tragic "accident". It is truelly disgraceful. This noble breed that is descended from one prepotent stallion, used in the cavalry remount and whose DNA can be found in the foundation of the QH, has been diluted to the point that, looking at today's show champions, all look like Saddlebreds. It is very frustrating when you consider how small the gene pool is for this breed and how polluted most of today's bloodlines are by unsanctioned blood.

 

[CarriBrown]

I HATE that people are breeding the feet right out from under QHs!!

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

Back when I was looking for horse about three years ago, I came across this beautiful black mare with a personality to die for. She was a QH and almost four years old, but she was laid back, did what I asked and just generally seemed like a perfect horse. She was a little pricey though and had 00 sized feet. It wasn't the price that turned me away from this horse, but her tiny feet! I had brought a friend with me to look at her a second time and that's when we realized that her tiny feet would eventually cause problems. She was going to mature into a nice muscular QH, but with feet like that she just wouldn't have been able to do what I asked (Which was not much, but for that price I wanted something I could depend on for MANY years!) That was just such a shame!

I like a pretty horse, but I'm more the person who goes with a horse who might be a little "ugly" just as long as it can do a job. Some of the best horses out there have crooked legs or ugly as all heck conformation. I think a lot of people are often under the impression that a horse NEEDS to have perfectly straight legs, a perfect back, perfect head, etc. I find this is less and less true because as long as that conformation fault does not affect the horse's movement in any way, they can still be just as successful as those big money horses with perfect comformation. Granted, they may not do as well in a show, but if you are not showing, why do you need that perfect horse?

Our one horse is probably the ugliest thing ever. We think he's part standardbred with a little QH in him. His neck is too skinny, his body too lanky, and his head is too square...but he's been the best horse! He's getting up in years now (probably about 25 or so) and he'll have a lame day every now and then, but he's always been a great trail horse, does what we ask and has NEVER bucked, kicked, bitten, etc. I wouldn't have traded him for anything...even a beautiful show horse.

Don't get me wrong though, I love a nice show horse and I think there are plenty of awesome breeders out there. But you always have a few that ruin it for everybody. Some of the best dog breeders I've known (switching species a bit here) are people who breed for dogs with good temperaments and health over a dog that will be top in a show. They still do excellent in the shows, but they gain a lot of respect from potential buyers just for the fact that they breed in such a way that shows the utmost care for these animals. They are not breeding for "just" the money or "just" a title. They still get plenty of both...but in the end they have healthy, good mannered animals to boot.

 

[EweSheep]

Quote:
Thanks for the link! I loved it!

Now you folks got those "classic" websites similiar to this one above?

I didnt know that the Lippizanners were bred up, I thought they were around 15 hands. Beautiful horses and how many of them went on to the "high school"???? Probably very few and it makes me wonder if they have bred the brains out of the stallions.

Correct me if I am wrong, isn't the Morgans supposed to do the high stepping gait like a TN Walker? Morgans are not considered to be the upper crust of breeds but a working breed. There were a few Morgans and you can TELL they were Morgans at some Civil War reenactments we go to. Some purists say that the Morgans were never used in the war but work horses on the farm. i have to say, in all cases, Morgans were used in the war either for riding calvary OR pulling cannons they were dual purpose if you get my meaning. I know TN Walkers and MO Foxtrotters were used in the war too.

I noticed that the TN Walkers rumps kept getting shorter and their legs kept getting longer...makes me wonder if it would be incorrected put together, they would not be able to do their running walk or have enough fluidity in their hind quarters to overstep the front hooves. I have not seen chains for a long time, dunno if they outlawed it nor I saw any nickings.

The pinto color can be of any breed, almost like designer horses! Want color on a solid QH, no problem! Color on an Arab, no problem!

I am unfamiliar with warmbloods but still learning from you folks! Love to watch them on dressage, jumping and events on TV.

Too long of a back would impair the horse's ability to carry weight, thats my opinion. Like the Paso Finos, too long of a back, it looks awful, unbalanced and out of place!