Horse Talk

[ChickenLover200]

I stand my ground when my mini comes toward me (unless invited), I make him go back. This was the#1 thing I started working on at the start of training. I felt that getting him to back out of my space instead of likewise, was like me taking dominance. He does back well. I went from a lot of pressure to a little pressure and now that I have a rope halter, it is even less pressure. At times, he's afraid of the whip because I believe this was one the tools utilized to abuse him, typically the head area, so I'm hesitant to wave it too much around his head. He's used to the whip rubbing on his rump, but won't move off of any taps on his body, legs or neck.

 

[Bunnylady]

I stand my ground when my mini comes toward me (unless invited), I make him go back. This was the#1 thing I started working on at the start of training. I felt that getting him to back out of my space instead of likewise, was like me taking dominance. He does back well. I went from a lot of pressure to a little pressure and now that I have a rope halter, it is even less pressure. At times, he's afraid of the whip because I believe this was one the tools utilized to abuse him, typically the head area, so I'm hesitant to wave it too much around his head. He's used to the whip rubbing on his rump, but won't move off of any taps on his body, legs or neck.

I watched the movie "Buck" recently, and this conjures up a couple of scenes in my mind. In one, he's talking about a client's horse in one of his colt starting classes "You see that? That is a disrespectful horse. It's kinda like a teenager taking out the trash when you tell him to, but he gives you the finger as he walks out the door . . . " Next cut, he's working with that horse himself. "That's asking nice (the horse is still standing in place). . . . That is not being so nice. . . . .That's better" (as the horse moves off). The point is, you use as much pressure as is necessary to get the horse to do what you want. Of course, you then want to back down on the pressure and still get the result, but it sounds like all your backing down has achieved is Eli thinking that you don't really mean it, so he doesn't have to do it.

Freaking out and running around you in wild, crazy circles with the nose tipped to the outside isn't respect, or fear, or anything even remotely desirable - it's the horse avoiding the pressure by going out of control. It's a way of the horse asserting a sort of control itself by refusing to let you control it. If an animal has so much pent up energy that it has to run around and act like an idiot before it's ready to settle down and listen, you may have to wait through some of that, but it doesn't count as lesson time (though if it's got that much energy, at least you are out of range when it acts out by bucking and kicking!). The reason that I suggested yielding exercises is it gives the horse no excuse for not listening; you are right there, up close and personal, able to fine-tune the pressure, any refusal on his part is very pointed and obvious. You can hold the whip with the lash gathered up in your hand, so that's not waving about and causing excitement; you can use the butt end to bump with. The point isn't to create pain or fear, you are just trying to make not doing what you want physically and psychological uncomfortable enough that the horse will seek release by doing what you are asking it to do.

Pulling the horse's head toward you throws him a little off-balance, he will naturally seek to restore that balance by moving his hind end in the opposite direction. Looking at his backside and stepping toward it focuses your energy and creates mental pressure in that area. Using a voice command like move over, step over, whatever will tell him that just standing there isn't what you want him to do. Using the butt of the whip to bump focuses the energy even more, and makes the pressure tangibly physical, if the mental pressure didn't get the job done. If he's still so intransigent about not moving, you can poke him with the butt of the whip - it's really uncomfortable, you can't just lean into that kind of pressure. When he steps away (as surely he will at some point in this escalation), you say "good boy" and release the pressure, immediately. Drop the whip hand to your side, relax your shoulders, pivot on the foot closest to him so that your body is facing the same direction as his body and don't even look at him. That's release, and a lot of people don't give it quickly enough to really reward the horse. Eli can't possibly be so thick as to not "get it" if you do it right.

After a minute, ask him again, and escalate to whatever level it takes to get that step away. Release. Eli's a smart boy - by the 3rd or 4th repetition, you may only look at his butt and he steps away. Obviously, the goal is to get the response with just a small amount of pressure, and you won't have to give that extreme level of release every time, either, but you are exaggerating things to make it very clear to you both. When you get Eli moving away from pressure at the hind end, you can progress to getting him to move forward rather than just sideways (raise the whip hand behind him, extend your hand with the lead in it to your side and a little behind you, and use the voice command, "walk"). Dropping the pressure behind, changing the lead (and whip, if you are still using one) from one hand to the other and extending the whip hand in front of him puts the pressure in front, he should yield to the pressure and whoa or turn back and head the other direction, whichever you want him to do. It may take a few sessions, but you can have him "lunging" at a walk on the end of a lead rope, with just your hands and voice.

 

[abigalerose]

I agree. That is really good advice. And I'm sure Eli knows by now that you're not going to hurt him, he also probably knows that acting a certain way will get him out of doing what you want him to do, becuase you won't keep the pressure on him. A lady brought her horse to me to work with, and right now I'm just halter breaking her, she's a very sassy mare and when she first got to me she was super ear shy. I tried all sorts of things to get her over it, including just gently working my way up by touching the base of her ear then dropping pressure, and repeating all the way up her ears, but she wasn't having it. She's kind of a mean little snot, well, she was, so I had to break out the tough love with her. I held tightly to her lead rope, right under her chin, because she likes to rear and I need to be able to make her step backwards really quickly if she tried to rear (this is how her owner showed me to do, she use to train all her own horses until she got too old, which is why I'm working with this mare) and then I reached up, and grabbed her ear, not painfully or anything, but just grabbed it and kept my hand around it while she threw her head every which way and then the second her head stopped moving I let go, I probably did this twice with each ear, and now she'll let me rub all over her ears, bend them back and forth, whatever I want without a care in the world. Even though she acted like a scared spooky horse and I didn't want to push her too far, I kept the pressure on until she realized what I wanted and she's came a long way. The first day with me she would run from me, if I put a lead rope over her neck and held her still she'd put her head way in the air and I'd have to wrestle her halter on her, when I tried leading, just at a slow walk, she reared. Now she'll come stick her nose right in the halter while I stand in one place, I can play with her ears, lead her around, pick up her front feet, and put my arm over her back. It just takes knowing when to keep the pressure on and when not to push them too far. I think with Eli you can put more pressure on him then you are putting, and once he realizes that just because you're putting pressure on him doesn't mean you're going to hurt him, things will go a lot smoother, he may act scared until he comes to the realization but once it clicks I bet he'll be like a whole different horse

 

[abigalerose]

Same with June, if you've been following this thread since the beginning you'll know that a girl I went to school with offered to come out and help me with training June when I first got her (I didn't have a CLUE about teaching horses stuff then) and this girl trains horses for people, as well as her own, she even charges more than twice as much as I ask, and I thought she would be helpful, well she put June in the round pen and CHASED her with the whip, June was running, eyes bulging, kicking, biting, trying to jump over the panels, and this girl tried to lay her down for being "disrespectful", she even told me June was a bad horse, which I knew enough to know she wasn't. So I took to the Internet for advice on what went wrong and how I could fix it, and a lot of people told me that I'd probably never be able to teach June how to lunge because she'd be scarred for life. But with patience and knowing when to push and when to back off, we finally figured it out. Now she round pens better than any horse I've ever had and she even seems to enjoy it. We're even working on Liberty circles. And that was the whole reason I got into training, that's how a lot of people in my area train horses, in fact I couldn't find anyone who doesn't, and I don't much care for it so I took matters into my own hands. Luckily now I have my cousin to help me, as well as that lady who's horse I'm training (she's got about 10 more for me!), she raises cutting horses and use to train all of her own and is actually pretty well known around here, but she just can't do it anymore. It's not really an apprenticeship since I'm not there helping her train, but she has a lot of horses she's going to let me work with, and she's been giving me good advice. She did have a pro trainer she took them to but she said he was really expensive and she just wants them started and not trained for cutting, she also said she doesn't really like the guy and wants someone who shows compassion for the horses. And she said she wants to help me becuase she was once in the same position I am.
But anyways, I think a lot of it is going with your gut feeling and knowing if you're pushing your horse too far

 

[abigalerose]

Well I'm halfway through the movie Buck and I think Buck Branaman might be my new favorite trainer.
@ChickenLover200 You should watch it too

 

[I Love Layers]

So there's a girl names Rose at my school, she's a senior. She got 2 horses in early July this summer. At first she could catch and ride them fine. But after a week they wouldn't let her catch them.
And now they're "to fat to fit a saddle on"
So my cousin and I told her that you should exercise them then. She then said I still can't catch them.
I was like OMG
Do you want fat horses!??!?!


The thing that makes me angry, was that I've had the option to buy these 2 horses for $1000 for both for the last year and I kept turning the guy down...

 

[abigalerose]

Are you friends with this girl?

 

[I Love Layers]

Are you friends with this girl?

Well, I would say we could be friends. It doesn't help that her mom is crazy!!! Her mom claims she's wrestled a moose!!!

and that's just one of the things she's said...

She would be really nice and sensible if it wasn't for her parents..

 

[abigalerose]

I was gonna say, you know a lot about horses, maybe you should help her out with getting them use to being caught again. But maybe that wouldn't work lol

 

[I Love Layers]

I was gonna say, you know a lot about horses, maybe you should help her out with getting them use to being caught again. But maybe that wouldn't work lol

I'll leave my cousin to that

my cousin is 1 year younger and better friends. Where I'm 4 years younger...