Houdans

[Puddin Fluff]

I will say that we got the Houdan eggs from U of Arkansas on a whim. My daughter is in 4-H and wanted to do a hatch for her project so we looked at their current breeds and my son actually wanted to try the Houdans. They are a georgeous bird and certainly have a personality all their own. We are not breeders and only have a small mixed flock but I certainly enjoy the birds. I do hope that others out there continue the breeding and keep the line going.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

I'd noticed Sand Hill had them this year too and recalled the issues Yellow House Farm had had with them. I'll definitely be sticking with mottled for my project...but I would love to see what the quality is like if anyone gets birds from Sand Hill this year. Maybe they were unavailable because they were working on improving their stock and keeping all they could hatch to select from? (<--that would be awesome if that were the case.)

 

[Outlier]

Just putting this out there, but I've been dressing Mottled Anconas for ages, and with a little practice and proper timing they dress out just fine. Concerning Houdans and having worked with the Whites from Sand Hill for a while, I'd say that they're lovely but not worth the focus. Meaning, Houdans are mottled, the whites are a side project that got recognized but that was never really important. If Mottlled Houdans dserve a book, the whites might deserve a pamphlet. Considering the current state of Houdans, a full on charge with the mottleds might get you somewhere powerful, and then you can recreate good White Houdans via outcrossing to White Dorkings. It would take a couple of generations. They won't be hard to have in nice quality once the Mottleds are safe and secure.

Well, I certainly see your point. There is always someone trying to create another color within an old breed that unfortunately detracts from the older variants in need of more support (think self blue everything). However, white houdans may be a distraction, but they are also an old distraction with an old gene pool which I believe is worthy of preservation (Sand Hill seems to agree). They're certainly not as old as mottled houdans, but a 1914 admission into the standard doesn't make them spring chickens either. My concern has been in preservation of old gene pools, and once the original whites are gone, there is no point in recreating them. You would just be recreating an old distraction that has even fewer genetic merits. For example, I'm interested in the old line of Lamonas (newer as they may be), but once they are gone, I have no interest in a recreation. The same goes for delaware and colombian rock recreations. Obviously, the best way to preserve houdans is with the mottled ones, but as I mentioned earlier, the whites are still easier to dress and breed, especially for the beginner. Just my point of view; no one has to agree.

 

[aoccl]

Has anyone on here before ordered from Sand Hill before? If so I would like to know what you thought of their Houdans.

 

[TNBEARCHICK]

We just put 3 houdan eggs in the incubator

Oh if they all hatch and we got a trio

not likely but we can pray for good results

 

[Lilwanis]

We just put 3 houdan eggs in the incubator

Oh if they all hatch and we got a trio

not likely but we can pray for good results

 

[Lilwanis]

Has anyone on here before ordered from Sand Hill before? If so I would like to know what you thought of their Houdans.

My understanding is that the White Houdans from there had issues in the past (can't remember what?), but have not been available for purchase for a while. My guess would be that they were improving their breeding stock, but no one has ordered since they became available again. I toyed with ordering some from them but have two issues:
1. I really wanted the mottled.
2. You can only order five at a time and have to fill a 25 chick order. I wouldn't mind having more breeds, but I am limited on space. I would have to sell any other chicks that I get or have someone go in on the order with me. I am still new enough in the chicken world that I don't really have anyone to help with that. Plus, I would really rather start off with much more than 5 chicks. Which means that I would have to do multiple orders of 25 to get to enough chicks. (You see, I can talk myself out of buying more chickens

)

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Well, I certainly see your point. There is always someone trying to create another color within an old breed that unfortunately detracts from the older variants in need of more support (think self blue everything). However, white houdans may be a distraction, but they are also an old distraction with an old gene pool which I believe is worthy of preservation (Sand Hill seems to agree). They're certainly not as old as mottled houdans, but a 1914 admission into the standard doesn't make them spring chickens either. My concern has been in preservation of old gene pools, and once the original whites are gone, there is no point in recreating them. You would just be recreating an old distraction that has even fewer genetic merits. For example, I'm interested in the old line of Lamonas (newer as they may be), but once they are gone, I have no interest in a recreation. The same goes for delaware and colombian rock recreations. Obviously, the best way to preserve houdans is with the mottled ones, but as I mentioned earlier, the whites are still easier to dress and breed, especially for the beginner. Just my point of view; no one has to agree.

This would be a very valid point, but they are not pure White Houdan. They received serious infusions at the time of rediscovery in order to lift them out of the hole they were in. Every once in a while one will pop up with good shoulders, which betrays the presence of Piper's old Mottled line recently added.--now if only Piper's old line were still around en force instead of creeping around buried in a color project.

The greatest obstacle I've watched with beginners is color. The heart of a chicken is in its type; it's in its body. The ideal Houdan is to have one of the most fantastic types available for meat in poultry, but it has been decimated, absolutely ravished. The closest hatchery bird I found to being the right shape was from Hoffman Hatchery out of Gratz, PA, but they were way too small. The MMcM birds just simply weren't Houdans. I ordered a really large order of MMCM cockerels trying to find something to use, and they were amazingly worthless, utterly amazingly worthless. Multiple years later, I still can't get over how ridiculously bad they were.

Now there is this U of A strain I've never worked with them, maybe I would have made different decisions concerning our breeds back then, had I known about them. Regardless, Bentley apparently backs them as worthy (I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth, Bentley), which is saying sommething. Before I would have sad that Houdans are already gone, that their only possibility of return would be through an out-cross to Dorkings, but if this U of A strain is up to snuff and meets SOP weights--WOW. If this is true, than I'd putit out there that there's absolutely nothing worth grabbing outside of it, save, perhaps, the gent on here who seems to have a remnant of Pipers line. If the U of A strain is worthy, then they are the Hail Mary pass last best great hope. If a group of folks began uniquely with this one strain and cooperated closely for a decade, Houdans could be back on the map again as a bird really worth working with--think ALBC Buckeyes, but this will only come about through that kind of discipline.

Starting beginners on White Houdans would only lead to disappointment and abandonment of the project. They're like scrappy Leghorns with a puff--delicious scrappy Leghorns--but scrappy Leghorns nonetheless. It will take a very strong and maintained effort to get them up to SOP, and in that time the Mottleds will have been neglected. At this point, every Houdan breeder counts, and that's the biggest difference between now and when the first White Houdans were developed via outcrossing.

Now's the ideal time to figure out how to get some of those U of A Houdans into your pens. There's got to be some way to make them accessible. With a little fervor and singleness of heart, all things are possible.

 

[fuhrchick]

I bought a mottled houdan from Cackle Hatchery a couple years ago and she is a great bird. Lays pretty good I think and is a little smaller than our other hens (buff orpintons) but a gorgeous bird that stands out!

 

[aoccl]

This would be a very valid point, but they are not pure White Houdan. They received serious infusions at the time of rediscovery in order to lift them out of the hole they were in. Every once in a while one will pop up with good shoulders, which betrays the presence of Piper's old Mottled line recently added.--now if only Piper's old line were still around en force instead of creeping around buried in a color project.

The greatest obstacle I've watched with beginners is color. The heart of a chicken is in its type; it's in its body. The ideal Houdan is to have one of the most fantastic types available for meat in poultry, but it has been decimated, absolutely ravished. The closest hatchery bird I found to being the right shape was from Hoffman Hatchery out of Gratz, PA, but they were way too small. The MMcM birds just simply weren't Houdans. I ordered a really large order of MMCM cockerels trying to find something to use, and they were amazingly worthless, utterly amazingly worthless. Multiple years later, I still can't get over how ridiculously bad they were.

Now there is this U of A strain I've never worked with them, maybe I would have made different decisions concerning our breeds back then, had I known about them. Regardless, Bentley apparently backs them as worthy (I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth, Bentley), which is saying sommething. Before I would have sad that Houdans are already gone, that their only possibility of return would be through an out-cross to Dorkings, but if this U of A strain is up to snuff and meets SOP weights--WOW. If this is true, than I'd putit out there that there's absolutely nothing worth grabbing outside of it, save, perhaps, the gent on here who seems to have a remnant of Pipers line. If the U of A strain is worthy, then they are the Hail Mary pass last best great hope. If a group of folks began uniquely with this one strain and cooperated closely for a decade, Houdans could be back on the map again as a bird really worth working with--think ALBC Buckeyes, but this will only come about through that kind of discipline.

Starting beginners on White Houdans would only lead to disappointment and abandonment of the project. They're like scrappy Leghorns with a puff--delicious scrappy Leghorns--but scrappy Leghorns nonetheless. It will take a very strong and maintained effort to get them up to SOP, and in that time the Mottleds will have been neglected. At this point, every Houdan breeder counts, and that's the biggest difference between now and when the first White Houdans were developed via outcrossing.

Now's the ideal time to figure out how to get some of those U of A Houdans into your pens. There's got to be some way to make them accessible. With a little fervor and singleness of heart, all things are possible.

I agree with you about people creating new colors within breeds. It drives me nuts to see people making these new colors when the recognized ones haven't been worked on enough and then some you 4-Her comes along likes the color buys it and I have to give a red because the color isn't recognized.