How About a Jumbo Co Op

[Stellar]

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JJ, maybe I will find the conclusion to the Moby Quail story

 

[deerman]

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Yes hear all about them , only ones I have seen are whites that are the same size as the English Whites I got back in 1964.

 

[Buttercup Chillin]

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I could have sworn this thread was for Jumbo believers and the nay sayers and unbelievers promised to stay elsewhere. They did want us to start our own thread, so they wouldn't have to yada yada. I am sure this thread title included the word Jumbo to warn them off. Am I right or wrong about that. I thought I read that when I was catching up after Thanksgiving. I quess it was wishful thinking. Well, lets get it done and who cares what they say.

If I want birds the size of chicken, I will raise chicken and I do. Ok, so at what age do you want a 1lb Coturnix (a Giant by the way - not a Jumbo). I am thinking of staying with the old standard of 10-14 Oz live weight at 6-7 weeks. But actually, I prefer 10-12 oz at 6-7 weeks, 13-14 at 8-9 weeks, I think would do nicely if you want them a bit bigger. I suppose if you really want to grow them out to a Giant, that being defined as being 1lb and over (as of old) they would be capable of easily making that weight by week 12 when they reach their full size.

I think this makes a good dual purpose bird, with good size eggs early on and grow it as big for as long as you want to feed it. So to speak. Personally, I don't like the taste of a bird over the age of 8 weeks and even that is stretching it a bit. Just to strong of a feed taste, a strong almost bitter taste. Oh yes, I want white meat somewhere on the bird. Not light meat, white meat, as they have had time to further develope (mature) a little on their own. Light meat or striated on the legs is just fine though, especially for the newer color Jumbos, they have a lighter taste. There will be more Jumbo colors coming, I am sure, certain of that.

This is my ideal dual purpose Coturnix. What do you think?

Now you know I can say that as I have a whole growout cage full of females (well a dozen females anyway) that are 12 oz and over at 7 weeks. (at 6 weeks I weight and tag 12F/4M keeping no more males than 4 to choose from). Not so much weight for the boys but then, I haven't paid to much attention to them. Their turn is coming up, though. Also, I do not weigh after they are 7 weeks as I have already picked my breeders and culled the rest of the hatch. I don't really pay attention to my breeders weight as I am not going to be eating them until I am done with their breeding. They are a good portion of my meat, so I try not to waste any. I don't mean to be crude just factual.

I start breeding my own birds after the 1/1/11 hatch, so I really would like to know before then.

So, above Weights/Ages
Good size eggs at an early age, not 11 weeks, that is to long of a wait for me, I prefer 6 weeks, not before.
Easily sexed early, by feather sexing or something else. (See above Weights/Ages for explanation).
Light meat/white meat (has to have Whites in the genetics somewhere).
Pretty.
What am I forgetting? My list is longer than this so will have to edit this later, I guess.
I am not selling to restaurants so don't care what color they are, but they should be pretty so people will want to keep raising them and buying more from breeders. Restaurants will define color, size and meat anyway for those that do raise them for restaurants.

 

[aprophet]

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I could have sworn this thread was for Jumbo believers and the nay sayers and unbelievers promised to stay elsewhere. They did want us to start our own thread, so they wouldn't have to yada yada. I am sure this thread title included the word Jumbo to warn them off. Am I right or wrong about that. I thought I read that when I was catching up after Thanksgiving. I quess it was wishful thinking. Well, lets get it done and who cares what they say.

If I want birds the size of chicken, I will raise chicken and I do. Ok, so at what age do you want a 1lb Coturnix (a Giant by the way - not a Jumbo). I am thinking of staying with the old standard of 10-14 Oz live weight at 6-7 weeks. But actually, I prefer 10-12 oz at 6-7 weeks, 13-14 at 8-9 weeks, I think would do nicely if you want them a bit bigger. I suppose if you really want to grow them out to a Giant, that being defined as being 1lb and over (as of old) they would be capable of easily making that weight by week 12 when they reach their full size.

I think this makes a good dual purpose bird, with good size eggs early on and grow it as big for as long as you want to feed it. So to speak. Personally, I don't like the taste of a bird over the age of 8 weeks and even that is stretching it a bit. Just to strong of a feed taste, a strong almost bitter taste. Oh yes, I want white meat somewhere on the bird. Not light meat, white meat, as they have had time to further develope (mature) a little on their own. Light meat or striated on the legs is just fine though, especially for the newer color Jumbos, they have a lighter taste. There will be more Jumbo colors coming, I am sure, certain of that.

This is my ideal dual purpose Coturnix. What do you think?

Now you know I can say that as I have a whole growout cage full of females (well a dozen females anyway) that are 12 oz and over at 7 weeks. (at 6 weeks I weight and tag 12F/4M keeping no more males than 4 to choose from). Not so much weight for the boys but then, I haven't paid to much attention to them. Their turn is coming up, though. Also, I do not weigh after they are 7 weeks as I have already picked my breeders and culled the rest of the hatch. I don't really pay attention to my breeders weight as I am not going to be eating them until I am done with their breeding. They are a good portion of my meat, so I try not to waste any. I don't mean to be crude just factual.

I start breeding my own birds after the 1/1/11 hatch, so I really would like to know before then.

So, above Weights/Ages
Good size eggs at an early age, not 11 weeks, that is to long of a wait for me, I prefer 6 weeks, not before.
Easily sexed early, by feather sexing or something else. (See above Weights/Ages for explanation).
Light meat/white meat (has to have Whites in the genetics somewhere).
Pretty.
What am I forgetting? My list is longer than this so will have to edit this later, I guess.
I am not selling to restaurants so don't care what color they are, but they should be pretty so people will want to keep raising them and buying more from breeders. Restaurants will define color, size and meat anyway for those that do raise them for restaurants.

you are kina approaching cornish X genetics when you are talking the numbers you posted not trying to tell you what to do but if you want that size bird either raise chukars or cornish bantams or Game hens I have seen about a 10% increase in size on my birds I started in january of 2010 my birds are approximately 8-12 oz I am getting ready for about my third cull here in a coupla days both bobs and corts are going to freezer camp.

 

[Omniskies]

If man can make a chicken that grows to be as large as a normal turkey, and a turkey that can grow as large as a goat, then I think we can squeaze a silly little four more ounces out of our 12oz birds.

My proposal is simple: I want a 16oz bird by 10-12 weeks of age that lays reasonably well and doesn't have to be swabbed to stay fertile.

I don't care if this is achieved based on selective feeding, carefully monitered lighting, an increase of certain vitamins, or the actual genetic make-up of the bird.

I don't want the bird to be a chicken, a chukar, a guinea, a pheasant, a goose, or a cow: I want the bird to be a Coturnix quail.

Besides that I'm fine with anything. I like dark meat, so I don't care about anything white. I like my quail as they are now, so if they only get to 13oz I'm not going to get rid of them and swear them off for good.

And I don't care if it's impossible. As long as no birds are physically harmed (except when nudged into Freezer Camp

, then I don't see why a person couldn't strive to breed a 5lb quail that can count to seven and knows how to speak four words in English (all pertaining to food and sex).

It'll be fun. And if we fail then people get to feel smug and say those four little words that everyone, whether they like to admit it or not, love to say; "I told you so."

Even if we fail it will quite possibly be the most tasty journey toward failure the world has ever seen.

 

[Buttercup Chillin]

Sorry, aprophet, but my birds are bigger than 12 oz. already. What you underlined, is not a problem for me, not at all. I do not have A&M Whites, my J Browns have white tenderloin meat, not white breast meat and they have white or light leg meat. My Jumbo M Golds (not quite up to weight for me,yet) have light meat on tenderloin and legs and are mild in flavor at 6 and 7 weeks. I processed a large 5 month old hen that had a white tenderloin and light legs and was still mild flavored and somewhat tender - less the breast meat of coarse, really suprised me. But I still need to work with them before they are ready to leave.

But then I am already working with Jumbos from here in Texas. My own breeder program will begin with the 1/1/11 hatch and I will be using the F2 generation from my breeders eggs to begin with. I probably should wait for the F3, but I don't think he will mind. He knows what I want out of my own birds and he will be taking eggs from this generation, too. And he has a lot lot more birds than I do, so I should not have to worry about inbreeding or genetic regression. At least not for awhile, a long while.

I could be wrong, but I don't think so, hope not. Not after this weekend when my son saw the 6-7 weekers. He was here for the original hatch and growout and saw the difference in the birds immediately. He didn't need a scale to notice the difference and he could tell me which were Female/Male by size alone. He has no clue about feather sexing or the need for consistency in size of well bred birds. Yes, my freezer is about empty.

Go back to that Agi newsprint from 2005 I think, on the Diamond Ranch and reread it for when to process, don't question it, just do it. You will notice a few things happening with the birds, as I have hinted at here and there. For one thing, it makes you choose your breeders sooner than most people do. So it will cost you less in feed as you can cull earlier and just watch your chosen breeders weights, if you really want to, its not necessary. You will see an immediate difference in the birds as they growout. Less time wasted so if you have the climate and the set up you can breed more often. I must have read that thing at least 20 times over the past 4 years, thinking there had to be something there. Sometimes, I am a little slow to catch on to subtle hints.

Soooo, when they are ready (see above post), they will go around the country to a few breeders, who can get them out there. I want everyone to have Jumbos. There's no reason not to have them, if they want them. Not everyone wants Jumbo's, they are more expensive to feed and tend to. But maybe the eggs need to go with clearer instructions this time for raising them. And I think a Jumbo Co-op for trading and selling eggs is a good idea to keep the genetics going for people that don't want to raise a lot of birds. Or maybe they just want to raise them now and again. That is what I wanted originally, until I saw these birds grow out and saw what they could be. Now we have this ability for easy communication and should take advantage of it to keep the birds going once they are back. Should make for a much larger gene pool. If they can't migrate in the Americas', we'll just have to help them do it to keep those genetics flowing along the right path. As you can tell, I don't care where they came from, just where they are going and that they stay around.

Feed is extremely important, cage size and height is important (for different reasons than I have read on here), I have found that even the dustbaths are important in keeping them calm. And to my knowledge Texas A&M Whites were never at 1lb and are hard to get to even the higher weights. But the Texas A&M Jumbo Browns were further developed and were called Giants and pretty much lost and people around the country are trying to bring them back. I do not remember when they have to be 1lb. to be considered a Giant. Don't know if I kept the brochure, as I couldn't get the birds after the local breeder retired, some years ago. So no, my birds are not of that line, but the potential is there. So, we'll see and I do have more than high hopes.

 

[Buttercup Chillin]

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Yes hear all about them , only ones I have seen are whites that are the same size as the English Whites I got back in 1964.

I feel so sorry for you, my Jumbo Browns and even the Jumbo M. Golds are at least 2X the size of the Browns our friend raised in the late 70's. And they aren't ready to fly yet.

 

[Rozzie]

I think we should try crossing some quail with ducks. Then we won't have to worry about putting pebbles or marbles in their little quail chick waterers anymore.

Anyone up for crossing button quail with ducks? A little GMO lab exercise or two?

 

[Buttercup Chillin]

No, Rozzie, remember - no species crossing. These people come up with enough ideas on their own without your help. Lord, she wants the impossible again. Have a long talk with her, will you. If she doesn't pay attention, let her hatch more males again.

I couldn't resist, you set yourself up for that.

Oh, and if you would get the little quail waterers, you wouldn't have to put pebbles in them. Course you do have to find a ...... jar that fits them. Good luck on that.

 

[Rozzie]

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LOL I have the little quail waterers. I have at least six of them. I have one I like more than the others. It's even narrower than the rest. The jars are no problem, though. Has that been a problem for other people? Mine all fit canning jars. I have boxes and boxes of those.

For the button babies, I still put marbles in the little quail waterers. I'm taking no chances. The squashed marbles meant for crafts or plants will stand up on their sides in the quail waterers. Actually, I'll admit to giving these to the coturnix babies for the first 3 days, too. I'm not going to risk some nutty (but sweet) little baby managing to drown in the waterer for whatever reason...


And, if I can't mix the quail with ducks, I'm thinking we could mix them with some flamingos. I'm thinking bright pink quail. Yup, that way they'll match the purse I bought the other day. (Yes, I seriously bought a purse that has pink flamingos on it. And, I've seriously thought of buying pink flamingos for my yard...)