How am I killing my flock?!

[wemimew]

Hi everyone,

Any help with this will be amazing. I keep silkies and love them to pieces - the are a part of the family, they are showered with affection, spoiled rotten and (so I thought) cared for very well. Over the last 2 months they have all been having problems that have been treated accordingly and I have lost two of my little babies probably with more to come - here is a breakdown of what has been going on:

- Dill - Tumor growing on crop, difficulty eating, will be put to sleep next week
- Gherkin - Fungal infection on ear - still being treated
- MaBoi - Sudden impacted or sour crop yesterday (fine the day before) seemed to have aspirated as is breathing very raspy - in isolation, being treated with amprolium (due to hunched posture) and antibiotics (antibiotics orally not in water)
- Bebe - Has reproductive problems (always has), has been panting non stop for 2 days (recently finished being broody) - lash eggs suspected, going into isolation today and on antibiotics if required
- Hmmboo - Suspected CPerferingens, loose stools full of undigested material, loosing weight - has ongoing vet care as I have never dealt with this, on antibiotics, in isolation, not recovering
- Sweet Thang - Birth deformity resulting in leg amputation, loosing condition - still with flock but separated a couple of times per day for feeding
- Chubsley - Birth deformity resulting in messed up respiratory system, was doing well - suddenly passed last night unexpectedly
- Emu - has eating something and something is stuck in crop - going to vet next week
- Meegle - A week ago looked slightly off come roost time - passed by next morning

Seriously. Every time I loose one my heart breaks, I am sitting here crying right now from loosing Chubsley last night and am very confused. If it was all the same symptoms, I would be able to get it diagnosed and treat accordingly; but it seems like they all have their own issues that have been exasperated by something and now I am questioning my care. All my birds get vet treatment when ill, but they vets around here are not very good with poultry. I have to do my own research, present it to them, get them to run appropriate tests and then request particular antibiotics/treatments - its all very frustrating.

Here is a breakdown of their care:
- 15 birds in total (2 x 12week olds)
- Coop cleaned & run raked 3x per week
- Large coop with ventilation, draft free
- Huge run 12m x 4m, bare dirt, potted trees (cannot reach foliage), predator, snake and mice proof, fully covered
- Old tyres with plants in them (same trees)
- Branches around as perches
- Feed always available, micro pellets
- Shell grit always available
- Always fed age appropriate feed
- Fresh water daily, once per week ACV, once per week poultry multivitamin added
- Food hung from roof at night, water placed up on shelf
- All birds get haircuts (mohawks) so they can see fully
- Free range 4 hours every day
- Fed scraps as treats - not too often (stopped giving them as many scraps when problems started appearing)
- Use to get scratch in the afternoon, this has stopped because I want them to only eat their food
- Lice & mite free, checked often and treated every 4 months or so even though not required (via bath)

Can old tyres affect their immune systems? At the moment it is the only thing I can think that would be causing their lack of condition and letting problems take hold. Around the time the problems started, the run got flooded (as did everything else in the state) from a topical low. Once it stopped raining I removed the top layer of soil and aerated it to aid drying. We have a good collection of pallets here - the run floor was completely covered in them to keep them out of the mud/water - not sure if this may have triggered something. I do have my battle axe chooks, those who remain unaffected by anything have never been ill and always had good health. They all also do their own things in the afternoon during free range, some choose to sit up on the patio the whole time and spend no time with the others foraging so I am guessing it is something in the run. I also have 6 that sleep inside in their own little pens so doubt it would be from the coop.

I am lost for ideas so any help to fix this mess would mean the world to me

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Dill - Tumor growing on crop, difficulty eating, will be put to sleep next week

MaBoi - Sudden impacted or sour crop yesterday (fine the day before) seemed to have aspirated as is breathing very raspy - in isolation, being treated with amprolium (due to hunched posture) and antibiotics (antibiotics orally not in water)

Emu - has eating something and something is stuck in crop - going to vet next week

Feed always available, micro pellets

Shell grit always available

I'm sorry for your loss.
I'm trying to break this down so bear with me - I'm trying to get the ones that seem somewhat related.
Where are you located in the world?
The ones you are losing are 12 weeks old?
You mention shell grit, but do you provide grit?
What exactly is the feed you give? (brand?)
Run was flooded...was coop flooded too?
Can you post photos of birds and their poop?

OK. Dill - tumor on crop - is that on the outside? Can you see the tumor - is there canker, or yellow pasty lesions in the throat and/or inside the beak?

MaBoi - sudden impacted crop - have you treated for impacted crop? Amprolium (Corid) probably won't hurt, but what is the antibiotic? https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/
Same with Emu - have you treated for crop issues?

Look inside all their beaks - any canker, thrush, etc.

Gherkin - Fungal infection on ear - still being treated

Bebe - Has reproductive problems (always has), has been panting non stop for 2 days (recently finished being broody) - lash eggs suspected, going into isolation today and on antibiotics if required

Hmmboo - Suspected CPerferingens, loose stools full of undigested material, loosing weight - has ongoing vet care as I have never dealt with this, on antibiotics, in isolation, not recovering

Sweet Thang - Birth deformity resulting in leg amputation, loosing condition - still with flock but separated a couple of times per day for feeding

Have you had any respiratory symptoms within your flock - young or old?
The ear infection - how is that treated? Did the vet run any tests?
Same with suspected C Perferingens - any testing performed for that?

Bebe - how old is she? Has she laid lash material before? Any swelling/bloat or fluid in the abdomen? It could be lash egg or some other reproductive disorder, very hard to know without taking a look if you happen to lose her.

Sweet Thang - not sure about that - is she not able to move well enough to get to food/water on her own? She may not be eating enough. With having a deformity, possibly she is failing to thrive.

You mentioned potted trees/plants - what are those? How long have they been in the run?
Has your vet run any gram stain or fecal floats?

I don't really have any answers for you. It would be a very good idea if you lose another one to send the body to your state lab for testing to get some answers.

 

[wemimew]

Ok - I have been working with my vet for all my sick chooks this and they are still coming up empty. I am so frustrated. It’s costing me a fortune and I am getting nowhere! So I have been doing hours of research per night and have had the thought that this is probably a fungal issues. Before all this mess started - the coop flooded badly, even though I kept them off the ground and took a layer of soil off - there was bound to be bits of nasty food that they found and ate. I’m guessing that someone had a fungal infection that I didn’t notice and they have spread it to everyone else. That tied in with recent worming and Autumn moults have probably put way too much stress on everyone and they are more susceptible to issues.
The bird vet is away until next Friday, what can I do to treat them for this? I have already got probiotics going, ACV in water, water changed twice daily. The coop and run are spotlessly clean. No treats that have sugar/fructose/high carbs.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

What state are you in?
Maybe sending some swabs to your state lab would be better.
Can you get some photos of your set-up, the birds and their poop?
What does the inside of their beaks look like?


https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/

 

[wemimew]

I will get some pics later on today. I checked all their beaks yesterday, all are clean except one that I was told (by the damn vet) had a tumour that was making it difficult to eat. Dill has what looks like a yeast infection going on in there and possibly a canker - she is separated from the flock but may have been patient zero. I was going to cull her straight away but decided to separate and see how she goes - at the time of separation there was nothing in her beak to make me think it would of been anything other than a tumour. She is still going, but is thin and her time has come unfortunately, she will be pts next vet visit. I am in aus and don’t have that many resources available where I am for testing. I requested a gram stain at the vet the other day and was told no - that is just one example. It has come down to me thinking about diagnosing myself by getting a microscope and the other equipment/materials I need (use to work in a lab).

 

[pozees2]

Sorry you are having so many challenges with your Silkies. They can be more difficult to keep than other breeds. I have only a few suggestions, and not confident any will help but I don't think they will hurt.

First thing is, sour crop is often caused by an overgrowth of yeast, and antibiotics may exacerbate that problem. Amprollium will only help when the problem is overgrowth of cocci in the digestive tract. In Silkies it may actually cause other problems, because it works by blocking B-vitamin uptake, which can (in my personal experience, at least) make them vulnerable to wry neck. I had a bird with crop stasis a few years ago that I treated with homemade plain yogurt and scrambled raw egg from my own flock. I had to hand feed him 2-3 times per day with a syringe, and massaged his crop each time, and truly thought he would die but he pulled through.

Second thing is, as a rule, I found Silkies benefit more than most breeds from protein and B-vitamin supplements, and I can't say why, only that it seemed to perk them up when I fed them cooked eggs either scrambled or hard boiled and chopped up, and when I gave them B supplements in their water (I used Rooster Booster, and anytime one seemed down I direct dosed with a 1-cc syringe). I also found the only thing that truly prevented mite infestation was ivermectin (pour-on) drops at the base of the neck twice in 7 days, at least twice a year, some years more often.

Third thing is, make sure they are eating the pellets. I had a friend whose birds did fantastic on Manna Pro tiny pellets, but mine would never eat anything well but crumble, and I fed them at least 20% protein feed.

Best of luck.

 

[wemimew]

I'm sorry for your loss.
I'm trying to break this down so bear with me - I'm trying to get the ones that seem somewhat related.
Where are you located in the world?
I am located in Australia - it is Autumn here at the moment
The ones you are losing are 12 weeks old?
Nope - they are fit as a fiddle, all the birds with problems are over 6 months old
You mention shell grit, but do you provide grit?
They have bare dirt in the run and free range for hours every afternoon, there is plenty of grit around for them to find. They also have a massive old garden bed that they commandeered as their dust bath spot - its full of rocks. I plan on buying some online though as I am questioning if they are eating enough. Farm supply shops around here only offer shell grit not stones.
What exactly is the feed you give? (brand?)
Laucke Mills Showbird Breeder MP / Barastock Pullet Grower Crumbles
Run was flooded...was coop flooded too?
Nope - coop is on stilts above ground (thank goodness)
Can you post photos of birds and their poop?
Not sure about this one - I will have to see if I can upload from mobile - leave it with me.

OK. Dill - tumor on crop - is that on the outside? Can you see the tumor - is there canker, or yellow pasty lesions in the throat and/or inside the beak?
I started questioning the diagnosis and took a look the other day. I dont think it is a tumor - I could see white patches and one yellowish patch on the side of the throat. I am leaning towards canker and yeast infection now. I also think she is the one that has made the whole flock sick.

MaBoi - sudden impacted crop - have you treated for impacted crop? Amprolium (Corid) probably won't hurt, but what is the antibiotic?
MaBoi - I had thought he aspirated, it sounded more like upper respiratory instead of in the lungs so I decided against antibiotics (worried it would make it worse). He is not improving at all. He is being treated with Nilstatin, ACV and a little bit of yoghurt at the moment. Still off food and over drinking (leaking from beak)
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/
Same with Emu - have you treated for crop issues?
Emu has masses in her crop that seem fixed - cannot be manipulated or moved around, they feel like a hard lump with balls attached to it. I have treated for impacted crop with no success.

Look inside all their beaks - any canker, thrush, etc.
Dill has a funky beak now





Have you had any respiratory symptoms within your flock - young or old?
Respiratory issues somehow managed to get into my flock, no idea how and was a problem last year. Bebe and Chubsley were affected
The ear infection - how is that treated? Did the vet run any tests?
It is being treated with antifungal cream and hydrogen peroxide drops. Its clearning up now thank goodness
Same with suspected C Perferingens - any testing performed for that?
This one annoys me. I went into the vet treating for a fungal infection as her history suggested it would be that. If they were leaning towards bacterial but had no idea which one it would be I suggested CP as it was the only one that was linked to her symptoms. They told me it was not fungal and to stop treatment, refused my requested gram stain as they said it would be CP. She has finished 2x courses of Doxycycline with no improvement. I love that animal to pieces and I have nearly lost her.

Bebe - how old is she? Has she laid lash material before? Any swelling/bloat or fluid in the abdomen? It could be lash egg or some other reproductive disorder, very hard to know without taking a look if you happen to lose her.
Bebe laid a lash egg last year and was quickly put on the strongest antibiotic the vet could give. She got very ill and I was sure I was going to loose her. She survived and went on to be a happy healthy bird - this is the first problem I have had with her since. She was one of my ones that had respiratory issues as a pullet so I am guessing it is linked somehow to that. There is no swelling or bloat, she is laying down alot and panting like crazy, also seems to have a temperature.

Sweet Thang - not sure about that - is she not able to move well enough to get to food/water on her own? She may not be eating enough. With having a deformity, possibly she is failing to thrive.
She has never been a heavy bird and I am also guessing there are other things going on with her. She is brought away from everyone once per day and fed until her crop is full (food varies - mash, egg, mealworms, vegtables, etc). She use to be in her own pen with 2 friends with food directly infront of her at all times and was depressed, not moving, etc. All prosthetics failed because her femur also has a rotation to it. So I just dumped her in with all the big girls (had been living next to them) and she is doing very well - moving around quite alot (for her), socialising, eating well, drinking... just not putting on weight.

You mentioned potted trees/plants - what are those? How long have they been in the run?
Lilly Pillies - they were recommended as safe for runs. 2x are potted and 2x are planted in tyres. They have all been cut up high so that they cant reach the leaves. They have been there for a year.

Has your vet run any gram stain or fecal floats?
Gram stains were refused - I am considering buying what I need to do them myself. 2x fecal floats were suppose to have been done. the first one was forgotten about, the second one dropped off last week with no call back - I have to follow that up next week when they are open.

I don't really have any answers for you. It would be a very good idea if you lose another one to send the body to your state lab for testing to get some answers.

Hi Wyorp Rock - sorry about taking so long to reply, I have been struggling to find time to get on the computer. I have answered they questions above

 

[wemimew]

Here is a pic of the run and their little coop. The large cubby at the back will be their future home shortly. I have 6 chooks that are house chickens and sleep inside in their own little pens (love my babies). I was in the middle of taking pics of the flock when a flock of hawks (seriously - 4! I didn’t even know they flew in groups!) turned up so I will get them tomorrow. I have a pic of Hmmboo and her poop from the other day - let me know what you think.

 

[hayley3]

Sorry you are having so many challenges with your Silkies. They can be more difficult to keep than other breeds. I have only a few suggestions, and not confident any will help but I don't think they will hurt.

First thing is, sour crop is often caused by an overgrowth of yeast, and antibiotics may exacerbate that problem. Amprollium will only help when the problem is overgrowth of cocci in the digestive tract. In Silkies it may actually cause other problems, because it works by blocking B-vitamin uptake, which can (in my personal experience, at least) make them vulnerable to wry neck. I had a bird with crop stasis a few years ago that I treated with homemade plain yogurt and scrambled raw egg from my own flock. I had to hand feed him 2-3 times per day with a syringe, and massaged his crop each time, and truly thought he would die but he pulled through.

Second thing is, as a rule, I found Silkies benefit more than most breeds from protein and B-vitamin supplements, and I can't say why, only that it seemed to perk them up when I fed them cooked eggs either scrambled or hard boiled and chopped up, and when I gave them B supplements in their water (I used Rooster Booster, and anytime one seemed down I direct dosed with a 1-cc syringe). I also found the only thing that truly prevented mite infestation was ivermectin (pour-on) drops at the base of the neck twice in 7 days, at least twice a year, some years more often.

Third thing is, make sure they are eating the pellets. I had a friend whose birds did fantastic on Manna Pro tiny pellets, but mine would never eat anything well but crumble, and I fed them at least 20% protein feed.

Best of luck.

Is there a liquid Rooster Booster?

 

[wemimew]

Is there a liquid Rooster Booster?

I dont have Rooster Booster here, have never seen it. I do give them regular vitamins in their water and probiotics. My sickest get chicken electrolytes/vitamin mix in their morning water change and probiotics sprinkled on their food once daily.