How do you tell a vet "No" politely??

Ever seen a really old fat person?? Usually not.. they are thin and frail looking. But humans want to see their animals fat. There is always an exception, but most horses that I've known to live into their 30s are walking bags of bones the last few years.. As long as they are happy and healthy .. so be it.

I've got a friend right now that has a 36 year old Arab mare.. she is thin, doesn't shed, and always stands around with her head half way to the ground. She keeps her in her FRONT pasture .. then one by the road, because that is where the mare LIKES to stay. I'm sure she has had to answer questions from more than one nosy busy-body about the "skinny" horse in her pature.

She gets the best of care .. and I hope she hangs out for another couple of years!
 
i agree with everyone else simply say thanks but no...

then tell her if shes curious however youll be happy to let her do the tests at no cost to you...

i hat that behaviour...
its like my parents cocker, he reacently had a ruptured disk, off to the vet, medication, ok good, back the next day, more medication, another bill for a second office visit, back to the vet for a check after a week, another office visit fee and all she did was tuck his feet under...come back in a week because of the steroids, back we go, oh his ears need doing, thats another office visit fee AND ears, oh come back in a week to recheck his ears...yup you guessed it, ANOTHER office fee and all she did was take no longer than 2 seconds to shine a light in his ears...
and now shes not sure if she needs to see him in a week again with his back, well talk half way through the week to see how the meds are doing...*head desk*

and my parents havent fought it once because despite me telling them we shouldnt be paying a full office visit fee for a 3 minute recheck...theyd rather not make waves...

and the vet wonders why i use the low cost clinic for my dogs vaccinations...

sometimes you just have to be firm and flat out say no more
 
My vet is very reasonable and has more than once said, we can test more but truthfully the cost might not make much sense. She told me she always offers because some people want to do everything possible, no matter what. She knows I'm old school and that while my animals are always up to date on shots, neutering and worming, and well fed, past a certain point, there is only so much that can be done. If I tell her no, it means no.

I'll say what I told a family member about their human doctor. He works for you, if you are uncomfortable or don't have confidence in him, if he doesn't make things clear enough or doesn't listen to you, fire him. Hire another one. (no, not 'doctor hopping' just reasonable sane doctor stuff)
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Just another opinion:
I have known several vets who were not crooks and were very caring in dealing with my animals; I can name you some great ones in Charleston SC and in Tennessee. That being said, we expect these people to basically go to medical school and then work for a pittance. We don't want to pay real medicine money for our animals, because, let's face it, they are just animals. I don't blame the vets; some people are willing to go the extra mile for their pets and will pay anything. Others are not. If I can't afford something for my pet, or don't want to do it, I talk to the vet about it. If we agree (and usually we do) that's fine. If we don't, then it's either time to do more research or find another vet. I respect both the amount of time these people have put into their studies and their need to pay off their student loans just like everybody else.
 
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Whenever I go to the vet, I always ask him for a certificate that says, "I (vet's name) certify that this dog is a healthy weight and is not underfed and/or neglected in any way, shape or form. This is what ideal weight on a dog looks like. Most of you are conditioned to see overweight dogs. This is a healthy dog."

He just laughs.

Whenever I take my dog to family reunions or holiday get togethers, people always ask "Why is your dog so SKINNY? I'll give her some more ham." Yet my elderly dog still runs and is frisky while my father's dog and my mother's dog are obese, have difficulty walking and have many, many lipomas. My mother, last time she took her dog to the vet, was given the "talk" about euthanasia. Last time I took my dog to the vet, he said she's got at least two more years of good life ahead of her.
 
I do indeed respect the amount of schooling etc. and do not expect my vet to work for a pittance. I will, and have, happily paid vets LITERALLY 10s of thousands of dollars to take care of my dogs. I expect them to get as good, if not better, medical care than me. One of our dogs had an MRI. I spare no expense for our dogs.

However I do not expect a vet to tell me to make a vet appt I need to pay several hundred dollars for in order to satisfy his own curiosity. I didn't think it was right that this one particular guy thought it was OK to oh so casually spend a good chunk of my money for something that was actually upsetting to, and would do no good for, a very sick dog..

Vets are like everybody else who went to college - half of them graduated in the lower half of their class. I like to go to the DVMs that graduated in the top 50%, anyway. People should really think like that about MDs, too.
 
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So, so true! After taking a class with the first year vet students as part of my PhD, I am very unimpressed with the majority of the people who become vets. I also get to watch/help as the 4th year students go through rotations - further convinced that most are lacking in intelligence/common sense. There were people there who couldn't get 1st grade level concepts, but somehow managed to graduate anyway. It really knocked the whole veterinary community off their pedestal for me.

That said, there are a lot of VERY good vets out there, but there are probably an equal number of really bad ones.
 
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I have a little more complicated feelings about this matter. I think that old horses do indeed become less able to keep weight on. Their systems just don't work as well as they age. And of course, their teeth need work more often.

However, I wouldn't feel too confident that 'he's just getting old' if my older horse was steadily or suddenly losing weight. Old age does not require an animal to look like a hat rack.

For example, this spring we got a poor quality load of hay. In two months, two horses lost both fat and muscle over their toplines and lost covering over their ribs, the older horse more so. The pony looked fine - being a very 'easy keeper' it did not affect him. We got new hay, but didn't see a rapid improvement so started supplementing with a product that supplied more fat and minerals/vitamins. It actually took a few months for them to 'catch up' again.

First, I'd weigh the horse with a weight tape. I weigh my horses about once a month and would get a look to see how much of a downward trend there really is. I'd 'score' the horse (there's a fat scale score that is easy to apply) - I do that about once a month too so I can see if there is a change and how much. I'd try to get a picture if the horse is starting to look odd - in other words, ribs and hips sticking out yet pads of fat over the crest etc. I'd be looking to see if there are ribs showing, and yet pads of fat on the crest, on the rump, or around on the sheath, in other words, something about the appearance not quite adding up, in other words.

I'd make sure his teeth were alright. I'd have the dentist out and have him work on the horse's teeth.

I'd worm the horse and all others on the property, and perhaps review my worming program. It's recommended to alternate wormers and I'd see if I needed to change my program by reviewing it with my vet.

I'd consider that maybe my older horse is showing a problem with my management, that perhaps the younger ones wouldn't show because they're just a little...younger or of a different type - my youngsters might be Morgans, say, and my oldster a Thoroughbred. Maybe I am depending on my pasture too much and due to weather, stocking rates or just the gradual depletion of the pasture over time, I need to make some changes. If dry weather, too many horses, I'd reduce the hours/number of horses on the pasture (stall them more hours a day, say). If the pasture is getting depleted, I'd take the horses off it, fertilize (and perhaps lime, ask ag extension office for testing info and advice), and keep it unused for two weeks or more and let it recover, meanwhile increasing my amounts of hay to compensate.

Maybe I'm not giving enough hay. The old timer might need more time to eat, without competing with the others. Sometimes older horses get pushed away from the hay more. I'd also look at my hay. Maybe that last delivery of hay wasn't so good. Maybe the horse is not cleaning it up - perhaps there's a lot of waste to it. I'd try switching (gradually) over to a better hay, and/or feed more hay, give the older guy a place to eat where there isn't any competition, etc.

If the oldster is not getting any grain or fatty supplements, he may need it. I'd try something like Grow N Win or a senior feed that is extruded (pellets or whole grain might not get digested or chewed as well). If I was feeding grain, I'd look over what type. What am I feeding? Maybe it's not calorie dense enough. A flax product or simply topping his grain with a little corn oil might be all he needs. Maybe it's a whole grain, and the old timer needs a rolled grain as he doesn't chew as well as he once did.

I'd work on those things and start weighing the horse once a week with the weight tape. I'd keep a record of the weights, so I wasn't relying on my memory. And if I was still seeing my oldster losing weight after making some changes around the barn that should be making an improvement, I would indeed start to be concerned. Old horses often get illnesses of old age, and a great many of them cause noticeable weight loss. I'd first test for very obvious and inexpensively tested things, such as getting a fecal count on the old timer.

Most people's 'eye' is a little off. Some endurance folks or eventers tend to equate 'thin' with 'fit' and might be less concerned if an oldster drops weight(there is, indeed, a difference between how a lean, fit, muscled up horse looks and how an underfed horse looks). Others might love all their horses to be 'hog fat' and be super alarmed if an old timer starts to look thin - certain types of riding tend to prefer a horse that is fatter, and certain breeds tend to be sort of roly poly.

To top it off, some people are novice owners, and the day to day changes in a horse's energy level and behavior might alarm them. A person might have his horse be very lazy and disinterested one day, see a little weight change, and become overly alarmed. Or a novice might want to have his horse really heavy, fat and a weight loss down to a more normal, healthy level might alarm him. The weighing and the scoring are what takes out the personal bias and makes things more even-handed.

Too, keep in mind that the owner sees the horse every single day. A horse can lose a surprising amount of weight and the person who sees him every day, may not see it at all, because he sees what amounts to 'no change' each day, it happens gradually over time. But again, the weighing and scoring and keeping a record is what prevents these things from throwing one's eye off.

If an old horse showed a SUDDEN weight loss, I'd be at the vet's door - immediately. What's 'sudden'? Well, a dehydrated animal or one whose internal organs aren't working right, can 'draw down' very, very fast, and the coat can suddenly look dry and 'hidebound', with muscle mass decreasing and fat covering rapidly disappearing. Suddenly finding that the girth has to go up a few notches or that the horse's neck, shoulders and rump look different from the saddle or cart, is a lot of weight loss. And there might be a change in weight of 50 lbs more in less than a few weeks.
 
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His weight loss has happened over the coarse of 2 years, not sudden at all. 4 months ago he had his entire mouth rebalanced, he is on a great senior grain, has good quality timothy hay available at all times AND a nice full pasture of a pasture mix, they are on a regular worming schedule alternating wormers every 6 weeks. His blood work came back terrific and his energy level is great....he's just thin
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Since having his teeth done, TWICE in 8 months, he has gained some but I would like to see more. He is an almost 22 year old thoroughbred who has been a hard keep since he was 3 when i got him. Nothing comes easy with him. He is a cribber as well. He wears the Miracle Collar and it is controlled by that. As far as supplements and other things we tried for weight gain; Corn oil, rice bran oil, rice bran added in to his grain, beet pulp added in soaked, weight builder, alfalfa cubes and calf manna weight supplement. He eats Purina Equine Senior as recommended by the vet because it is a complete feed. All of my other horses are seniors as well. Another TB that is 19 and a QH that will soon be 17. The mini is only 2, she's my only youngin' here!

Please do not mis-read here, he IS NOT emaciated or sickly, just thin.
 
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That's the way I was thinking about your horse, gradually gotten a little thin as he aged...I added a lot of general stuff for other readers.

But...I do actually think that it isn't always that the animal is a hard keeper or getting old. One thing my old doc (human doctor who made house calls) told me that symptoms can indicate many things, maybe no problem, maybe a problem. A horse with cancer can gradually become thin, so can a horse with a gut obstruction. So can an old timer. One never knows.
 

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