How does one get the white out of the hackle in Lakenvelders and produce a blacker tail?

[Sumatra20]

Most Lakenvelders in America have a nice white body but too much white in hackles and not enough black in the tail. Anyone know how to breed this out. It does not exist in the German variety. Instead they have black flecking in the body. I think it all has something to do with the dark down feathers on the German birds???

 

[ramirezframing]

the ones I have seen here have solid black tails and heads on the roosters, its the hens that lack this. I am gonna take the best marked hens to the best roos and see if that fixes it

 

[Sumatra20]

Try to use the ones with dark down and see what happens also. The ones in Germany (where I am now) have dark down and the hens all have black hackles and nice tails. Of course after two years of age they start getting the black flecking in the body. I am still studying and learning from the people over here that have them. I will share all I get.
dave

 

[Henk69]

How bad is it? What material do you have available?

The lakenvelder pattern works best when you allow the birds to get a mild male feathering (think Phoenix/onagadori) but I don't like the effect on the hens' tail feathers.

Lakenvelders throw a lot of mismarked offspring if you don't want the male feathering.
Also good breeding hens tend to get more smutty their second adult year. I chose to live with that...

The roosters can hide a few genes that ruin the pattern on the pullets eg heterozygosity on the e-locus or Columbian Co-locus.
So Always try to use a well marked female and if you have the space, testbreed your roosters.

Finally, to make the silver more white, some lines have a gold diluter which adds white to the black areas.
I did some crosses to the vorwerk breed and got rid of it, not intentionally.

 

[ramirezframing]

here's some of my golds (need to get pictures of the slivers)

 

[Sumatra20]

Henke,
I am in Germany right now, but normally in America the Lakenvelder females have a columbian type feather pattern. Atleast this was the case in all the stock I had growing up. I plan on returning to America in 3 years or so and want to work at getting the Lakenvelders more like the German type. I too am ok with the smutty (black spots) after two years, but do not like the amount of white in the hackle feathers, or the lack of black in the tail feathers. I have spoke with a couple breeders here in Germany and they usually show the hens in the first two years and then use them for breeding after this.
I should come visit you since I am in Germany. Would you be ok with this? I am trying to get well educated before I go back and possibly help people like Mr. Ramirez work with his birds now. Complete lakenvelder fan here!!!
Dave

 

[Henk69]

I don't have many good lakenvelders to show you. I am doing color projects with vorwerk coloring. But if you are in the neighbourhood, why not?
I live near NRW, Kleve. Groesbeek, just over the border.

The dutch lakenvelders (maybe not mine) are even better than the german's.

 

[Sumatra20]

I will be up on the Ocean (East side) 13-19 Aug and would love to come see you. I am intersted in the Dutch Lakenvelders also. I have a question though. Can you transport eggs over the border between Germany and you? Just curious.
Dave

 

[Henk69]

Holland is too small for an ocean, you mean the North sea?

When the wind is right I can throw them over the border. I don't know of any restrictions.

 

[ramirezframing]

lol I'm a Mrs Weaver, the hubby don't get on here

. But I would kill for some of Henk's birds of any or all colors. Slowly working on a blue lakenvelder, as Henk told me how

. But the F1's are only a couple of weeks old.