How effective are livestock guardians? Desperate for your answers

[the3ofus+oursixchicks]

we have a blue heeler. he is very good. i dont know if i would say he is protecting the chickens but when he barks they head for cover. he lets us know if anything is around. i mean if he sees a bird like a buzzard he will even run after it. there is no chance really of him catching it cause it is so far in the air but he chases them. coyotes lets u s know about it all.

 

[TDM]

Quote:
I paid $100 for my LGD when she was six weeks old, but she came from a working farm and not a "reputable breeder".

I too wonder why the dogs are so old.

 

[remuda1]

The only thing I would do differently is I would wait and find young adult or teenage dogs that have had more time working in the field with their parents. I bought puppies and while I would not trade for my two Pyrenees, I had to learn how to do the "take down" in order to discipline them..... I'm 5'1" and 49 years old so THAT was a new experience, but it was very effective and necessary in the beginning. I would grab them by the scruff of the neck, make them lay down and bark at them!!!! Good thing we dont have neighbors within eyesight or hearing distance. These dogs must learn early to respect you because once they get to be a hundred and twenty pounds, good luck instilling respect then

. I love my girls and they are fabulous with my sheep. But..... If I had left them at the breeder for another couple of months, they'd be great with my cats, chickens and yorkies as well.

They are eight months old now and I pity the predator that makes the mistake of coming into thier pasture. GOOD, SECURE fencing is a must as well. It will be nice though, once they get some age on them and mature a bit more. It's my understanding that with these larger breeds, they are not considered adult until about eighteen months old.

I built my coop and run adjoining thier pasture in order to discourage predators.... So far, so good.

Oh, and while it would be nice to have the money to spend a thousand or so on a dog, I don't have that luxury. I got both of my dogs for seventy five dollars each when I bought my sheep. If I were spending 350.00 to 500.00, I would have to have FINISHED dogs that had been socialized and bonded with all of the kinds of animals that I was buying them to protect AND were ready to go to work. Good luck with it. I rest a lot easier at night knowing Penny and Sophie are keeping watch.

ETA: just noticed that she does have older dogs. Those are the ones I would want to look at.

 

[mulewagon]

Quote:
Irresponsible? Breeding my Badger was irresponsible? Nonsense! I walked onto a farm and got exactly what I wanted - a short-haired puppy with a GP personality, from a working mother. Calm, obliging, intelligent, loving, protective, expressive...no description can be good enough!

To the OP - there are show lines and working lines of GP. I understand that the working lines are healthier. As far as their guarding ability, there are variations in individual dogs, and a lot depends on training. If I were going to pay for a purebred, I would want him to be experienced with chickens, and would want to watch him with them. As well as knowing a great deal about his breeding and history, and talking to other people who had bought from that source.

 

[Agdketo]

My dog Riley, who is a "crossbreed" is half lab and half dalmation, and he is one hell of a dog. I've never had a dog that's been as intelligent as he is. And all of my other dogs have been purebred. He can round up our cattle, keep any varmint away, and he even gives himself his own bath. I've never had a coyote, coon, skunk or possum get any of my chickens, and it's all thanks to Riley. Wanna know what the best thing about my dog is? He was FREE.

 

[yinepu]

paying a high price for a dog DOES NOT insure you will be getting a healthy dog OR that the breeder isn't out for the cash and not lying through his teeth..
we spent $2500 on a german shepherd which was supposed to have all the testing done and was supposed to have been free from any defects... he was the worst dog heath wise that we have ever gotten

he had bad hips.. bad hocks.. every food allergy under the sun (which gave us bouts of doggy diarrhea plus the worst gas imaginable if he ate so much as a crumb of anything he couldn't have).. he also could have passed for a chupacabra when his hair fell out from all the scratching

when we confronted the seller about the health issues (and after spending thousands of dollars at our vet).. he called us liars and swore it wasn't his dog (even though HE had him microchipped before we got him).. from what we could find out he falsified the paperwork on the parents and even the AKC registration just to make more money off his puppies

so just because a breeder isn't asking for an arm and a leg and your firstborn child as payment doesn't mean they do not have quality dogs
you can spend a fortune and possibly end up with a "lemon".. or you can find a cheap/free dog and have it turn out to be the best dog you ever owned
you just never know.. so I always tell people to get what they can afford and don't believe the hype about a breeder .. go by word of mouth of people who actually own puppies from them (and who aren't their best buddies who may be lying to help their friend make a sale)


the guy we bought our german shepherd from had several champions in his kennel.. had amazing (falsified) paperwork to back up his claims...and a "great reputation"... we didnt know any better until we got our "lemon" and dug a little deeper to see we weren't the only ones who got "lemons" from him

 

[FrenchToast]

Just thouht I would add my 2 cents about the Great Pryreneese breed (sp) We have two. A male and a female. The male is the most docile boy. He is about 5 yrs old now. We got hime after we had moved to the country and before we got chickens.

Unfortuneately when we are not outside we have to keep him tied because he will patrol the area and GP are know for three things, wandering off, barking and digging !!! Well my Rex does all three. I don't care that he barks, I have 80 acres. He has dug huge holes that he likes to lay in to keep cool. As far as wandering, well he will come home after he has played in the low land swamps. The worst part is we live on a gravel road and when he hears a car coming from down the road he will run up the the road and beat the car to our driveway. Then he will either stand in the road or sit in the road. Fortuneately our neighbors always looked out for him but I felt to uneasy knowing that it would just be a matter of time before some stranger came down the road. Our neighbors dog got hit by another neighbor just up the road.
My dogs weren't from a working farm so I think that will make a difference. The breeder wanted $400 for the pups. I asked her if she would take less if she had any left as they got older. Well her answer was, I could come and get one that day and she would take $200. They had 15 puppies !!!
We paid $50 for the female. He wanted over $100 but we had to drive about 4 hours to go get her. I think she was an accident and he didn't want all those mouthgs to feed. I remember that breeder had a few extra's that she must have kept from precvious litters.
It is not fair to say you get what you pay for. Nowdays it's buyer beware which is a shame. You could hit the gold mine with a free dog or with a $1000 dog. ?????? your guess is as good as mine.

Anyway, while Rex my male GP is laying on the back porch I have 3 chickens that have a coop under our deck. Rex has a huge dog house and we feed him inside the dog house to keep the food from spilling Well the 2 hens and the Rooster come right up to Rex, go in his dog house and eat his food !!
River seems to want to playw with them.

Well, I hope your find the right dog for you.

PS I knew someone that had a marema LGD. They tend to be alot more agressive then the Great Pyreneese. Our GP's are like gentle giants.

 

[TDM]

Quote:
I found that forum to be a joke. Many of the prolific posters have only pyr mixes, and most dogs are house dogs. These dogs are so miserable and bored that they will run away from their owners at first chance, which is really why many there say to always keep the dog on a leash or inside a six foot fence. A good site for working pyrs is www.lgd.org.

 

[dainerra]

paying a high price for a dog doesn't insure a good breeder, but going "on the cheap" pretty much guarantees a bad breeder. NOTE: I said bad BREEDER, not bad dog. Dogs are individuals, so yes, even health-tested parents can have off-spring that have health issues.

The poster with the GSD, it's obvious from what the breeder said that they were a bad breeder. My breeder talks with me several times a week, getting updates on Singe, offering training advice, etc A good breeder WANTS to know if their pup develops health problems. It's also not just a matter of mom and dad being healthy, but their parents, their litter mates, aunts, uncles - the whole family tree!

It's simply a matter of stacking the deck in your favor. You can get a good dog at the pound, but you might get one with all the health problems of both breeds.

I think of it not as paying for a dog, but paying for the knowledge of the breeder. It took me several YEARS before I decided on the right breeder for my latest dog.

As for doing "take down" as one poster said, grabbing your dog by the scruff, flipping them over and barking in their face is DANGEROUS - a very good way to lose your face actually. You don't have to do that to teach your dog. People who are more knowledgeable with LGDs can talk about the correct way to train them, but I can guarantee this won't be on the list of techniques

 

[TDM]

Quote:
Actually it is a method used by LGD owners for training young pups. I've used it too.

From http://www.bountifulfarm.com/lgd_seminar.htm

If you don’t own at least one goat or sheep that will teach the pup manners, buy one; it’s worth it if you can find one. If you’re not able to do that, guess who wins big in the motherly discipline department. The time to learn about disciplining a pup is before it arrives. Prepare yourself to spend some time with the pup and teach yourself about a puppy’s concept of discipline. If you can manage to visit a newly whelped litter of about four weeks or older, watch what happens when a pup runs afoul of its mother. The pup screams and cries like death itself is about to visit. Momma growls, snarls, and puts her pup on its back and her mouth on its throat. It doesn’t last long but it is a very effective method to teach pups not to do certain behaviors. You really don’t need to act like you’re going to rip the pup’s throat out with your teeth but the growling and snarling is good. Putting the pup on its back affirms that you’re the boss and putting your hand lightly on its throat will serve that same purpose as teeth. Make sure this only lasts a few seconds, until the pup acknowledges the correction. Please understand we’re talking about young pups only. Most pups will submit easily but any dog, even a young pup, has the potential to contest a claim of the alpha position. If you claim it with an older dog, you’d better be prepared to prove it in no uncertain terms or you may very well have an uncontrollable dog that will need to find an alpha human if it is to lead a productive life around humans.