how in the heck are we supposed to live these days

[Oblio13]

Quote:
A few pertinent points in the interest of accuracy:

1. Oil company profits are huge because they are huge corporations dealing in an increasingly scarce commodity. But they are not exorbitant when viewed as a return-on-investment. Microsoft and Apple, for example, are much more profitable. If oil company profits were obscenely huge, then we'd all be buying their stock and becoming obscenely rich along with them.

2. The government makes far more profit from each gallon of gas than the oil companies do. Politicians like Hillary, for example, put on a dog-and-pony show for us by railing about unfair oil company profits, but they know the math. By the way, Hillary and her husband are a much more profitable entity than any oil company from a ROI perspective.

3. We are not a net exporter of oil. Far from it.

4. Boycotts of this sort are silly and ineffective. If you don't buy gas from them this week, they'll gladly sell it to you for more next week. We want their product more than they need our business. Simply learn to conserve.

5. Gas is still relatively cheap, both historically with inflation-adjusted dollars and compared to the rest of the world.

6. Welcome to capitalism. Making a profit is a good thing, not an immoral thing.

 

[horsechick]

Unfortunately, it will get worse.

The people that it will hurt the most, working everyday americans, can't even get along -long- enough with each other to stick together on anything, that's how they know they have got us and can get us for anything they want. Keep them bickering amongst themselves and we can do what ever we want. Education is on the downslide, (keep them dumb and they won't know any better) healthcare for elderly, well, for everyone is going down, prices are skyrocketing on everything. There are hundreds and hundreds of people who live in cities and can't grow or raise their own food.
Crime will probably rise in a lot of areas, people are already stealing gas.

Yes, Its ok to want to make money, but greed is the root of all evil. Eventually sellers and businesses will price themselves right out of customers and then wonder why they aren't selling anything, (like the big 3 auto), then cut more jobs, adding to the viscious circle.

Everyone has differences of opinion, and always will, but until people can get along long enough to do something for the future of this country as a whole, this is the beginning of the end of this country.
We should all try to not be so self absorbed, and think of others, help others, stick together, this thinking of me, me, me, I, mine, is not helping anything either.

I hate to think how it will be in 5-10-15 yrs. Children growing up today might as well become servents and at least get a roof over their head.

 

[Rosalind]

Oil company profits are huge because they are huge corporations dealing in an increasingly scarce commodity. But they are not exorbitant when viewed as a return-on-investment. Microsoft and Apple, for example, are much more profitable. If oil company profits were obscenely huge, then we'd all be buying their stock and becoming obscenely rich along with them.

Actually, if you check the stock market, Exxon has indeed surpassed Micro$oft. Exxon stock increased over 50% over the past two years (from <$60/share to $95/share) while in the same time period Micro$oft went from $22 to $30 (36% increase). So yes, go out and buy oil company stock if you want, it would have been a lovely 2006 investment to sell in, say, 2010. Personally I wouldn't, as I buy stocks for the long haul and I think their doom is imminent in the next decade or so. But if you like to trade on a fairly short-term schedule, then oil stock might be your thing.

Apple stock is doing well (nearly tripled its value) but its enterprise value, the value that you would have to pay to buy the company, is less than a third of Exxon's.

By the way, Exxon and other oil companies were just dragged before Congress to explain why they are boasting the highest profits of just about any company in the US right now. Didn't know if you realized that. It's true that they used to be similar to any other commodity business, but that has changed over the past few years. Most stock analysts expect that it shall change some more, too.

Edited to add: Another thing that you may wish to consider--As another poster pointed out, the US is far more fortunate than countries with significant economic inequality and social instability. Most businesses do not wish to operate in countries where there is significant social instability, but do operate in areas like Iceland, where there is a secure and stable society with lots of economic parity. I would suggest that you examine social stability as a factor in business success, and how economic equality and distribution affects the relative stability of a society, which in turn affects the ability of a company to do business. Just a thought, I know it is not something Ayn Rand wrote about ever, but if you study the Zimbabwean economic collapse of the past decade, it's an important consideration.​

 

[Oblio13]

The fact that you don't want to buy Exxon illustrates the point I was trying to make: They simply aren't as wildly profitable as people want to believe. They were dragged before congress in a cynically deceptive dog-and-pony show. It's not because congress cares about us oh-so-very-much. And notice that none of the congressmen mentioned that the taxes they impose on gas are far more than the oil company profits on gas.

We own both Apple and Exxon stock. Both have been good, but if I could go back in time knowing what I know now, and a burning bush told me I could only buy one, it would be Apple. Why aren't there internet chain letters about boycotting Apple? And if Microsoft had been the first stock I'd bought, I would have been a retired millionaire by thirty. Can't say the same for any Big Oil stocks.

Also by remarkable coincidence, I have close ties to folks in Zimbabwe and have spent quite a lot of time there over the past couple decades. We could probably have an interesting dinner conversation about it.

 

[horsechick]

I read somewhere the house had passed a bill to sue the oil companies, 859 to something, white house said it was a bad move because oil co.'s could retaliate, or other countries that produced oil could.
Anyone heard anything about that? I think they said that it would even be able to over-rule a veto by bush?

 

[k0xxx]

"I read somewhere the house had passed a bill to sue the oil companies, 859 to something, white house said it was a bad move because oil co.'s could retaliate, or other countries that produced oil could."

Actually, I believe there was a vote to sue OPEC. Just more congressional grandstanding while ignoring the real problems.

 

[horsechick]

ok, see it now, it didn't show up at first, thanks.

 

[greyhorsewoman]

Why aren't there internet chain letters about boycotting Apple?

The reason no one gets upset with the profits of Apple is because if I don't want the pay the price for an Apple Computer, I can go buy a Dell, Gateway, HP, Compaq, or no name brand. I can't do that with gasoline.

Boycotts against specific oil companies are useless, for the most part. There are no oil tanks marked individually Mobile, Exxon, etc. it is all run together. If it actually would work ... the other companies would run out of gas and guess what, they'd buy overstock from Exxon, Mobile!​

 

[texasreb]

This may or may not have anything to do with this thread, but I think some people are confusing the terms "combustible" and "burnable"(flammable). They are not interchangeable. In terms of liquid fuels a combustible fuel has a flash point of above 100 degrees F and is not considered readily burnable under normal temperatures and conditions. A flammable liquid has a flash point of below 100 degrees F. The classifications are further broke down on both sides of the scale into classifications I, II, III.

 

[Rosalind]

The fact that you don't want to buy Exxon illustrates the point I was trying to make

No, it only illustrates the fact that my stock-buying philosophies are a bit more complex than the mutual fund managers' whose only goal is to get more money. I am only managing my own portfolio, not anyone else's, so if I decide that company XYZ has good short-term profits over the next two years but poor prospects over the next ten years, I have the ability not to buy. A mutual fund manager or professional trader would be fired for that sort of thing.​