How many chickens would you need to keep to supply all the meat and eggs your family eats?

[Kazzandra]

As this thread has gone on for 33 pages and 330 posts, I'm not too surprised the OP has vacillated in his opinions and desires as the argument has grown, been misunderstood, been half-understood, been stretched, fabricated, and shrunk. It's been through the factory farm itself!

And also don't post insults to him but it's OK to call people delusional cause if that's upset you it's your fault for having perceived a slight.

My only issue in the original post was with him calling one side of the camp, so to speak, delusional. But you must remember he also referenced such people often taking the 'high ground' by claiming they're fighting and defeating factory farm issues with backyard chicken raising, calling anyone who keeps pet chickens 'delusional.' If only I had a chicken carcass for every time I've been on these forums and seen one of these meat-eating philanthropists offering the sage advice to solve a chicken issue by eating them, I could feed that family of four with anyone's math.
I will admit that while it didn't help to include an insult back to begin, I can understand his frustration.

But everything counts in large amounts-- as we have found in these posts with the math, with people who have removed their families from some part of factory farming (even if not with the grain to raise their meat, but I digress) and by the number of posts.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

I mean the whole thread was nonconstructive from the start and led with an attack in the OP. So I'm STILL not sure what your goal was.

Your model is obviously non-viable for keeping chickens to feed real populations of people as you've acknowledged. You say you want to discuss what it would look like, fine. But you're also not willing to change anything about it to make it viable. So you only want to present this model and talk about what it looks like for feeding a population in the opening post without changing anything...??? That's not a discussion really, you reached your conclusion to the discussion in the first post - it's pointless to try. That's just you saying "Look, I did some math about my situation. It's correct math. Now I'm right."

Like...Ok? I have nine chickens and they layed 8 eggs last week. If they did that every week I'd have 468 eggs a year. That's not viable for feeding people and is my real situation. Discuss.
Er... Ok? That's not viable for feeding people. Luckily it's not real, year-round, applicable production numbers and real chickens kept under productive scenarios are very capable of feeding people so it doesn't matter.
Ok, but with MY numbers I'm right.
The end.

I mean, there's nothing to discuss. But you DID leave a nice antagonistic slip in the front post about how misanthropic you are towards other chicken keepers who don't operate the way you do.

So yes, people are going to challenge your model because it doesn't fit any of the stated goals, explain why your misanthropy is wrong, and generally call you out for making a fuss over how bad other people are when they're trying to do something good. And that's 95% of what this thread has been because there's very little substance to it without the option to change the numbers to reflect a more accurate reality for the majority of chicken growers.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

@Kazzandra, while I understand that frustration... His attempt was to prove that those people were wrong for believing they could do that. He presented his own, non applicable, numbers as an example, but they were a bad example because none of the people he's frustrated with use his numbers.

Additionally I frequently see that as a means of explanation for why people do what they do. "I cull my extra roosters. They feed my family and I feel good about it. You don't have to make that choice but if you do they're at least useful and not raised in a factory farm. If you do then you can feel good about that small change too.". Sometimes I see it as a defense as well. "You should get rid of your sick pet chickens. They carry diseases that infect other peoples flocks which might be their livelihood or feeding their families." "Don't tell me not to cull my chickens. I feed my family with it and that's better than factory farms." Very rarely I see posts like the ranting about roosters thread which seek to express the frustration of the dissonance between the community of people who are buying livestock as pets and the realities of owning livestock, like "It's very frustrating that so many people want pet hens but aren't willing to take responsibility for the roosters that are created along side the fluffy hens they want or accept how their chickens are intrinsically connected to our food system whether they like it or not.".

I don't think any of those scenarios are particularly deserving of vitriol. Especially when that vitriol isn't "stop being jerks to the pet community" but "Well you're just full of yourself and your efforts are meaningless! Cause they would be meaningless if I tried to do it! So stop saying you're doing something good!". It's not a good place to put yourself in, ESPECIALLY when those people can prove their changes with real numbers.

Somethingsomething said earlier about taking the high road. Except in this case the low road can be disputed with facts which makes it awfully treacherous.

 

[Conan]

I could have done it better I admit.
Given you've been so polite I'll explain that I had a few models banging around my head when I wrote the original post. I really wanted to discuss the model. While I've modeled a lot with math years ago there are so many things to think about for this project that I botched up the post getting numbers and opinions mixed up.
Not to worry. It's just a thread on the Internet and hopefully I'll make a better job next time around.

I think there are times when we all could have done something better, right?

If I'm understanding correctly, this is a model that you would actually like to try using in regards to this local restaurant venture? If so, this makes much more sense when applied to your very unique chicken situation.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Well, here I am, late to the party again. Busy week. I read the OP and a lot of the responses, but not all. I really just want to respond to the OP, which I actually found very interesting and intriguing. And my opinion and experience may or may not reflect that of other people - but I want to say it anyway.

With my little flock that averages around 20 birds at any particular time, and given my little freezer, my health, my busy life, and other priorities, there is no way I can process upwards of 400 birds a year, but it was fascinating to learn that a family of four would actually require that many, so I wanted to thank @Shadrach for doing the math to come up with that bit of information.

In fact, I was real pleased to have processed somewhere between five and ten in the last year or so - or rather, to have produced them and HAD them processed, as I didn't actually butcher any of them myself. And they were delicious! That means that my family did not consume ten chickens that were produced in a less humane way, and I feel really good about that. I may not be able to save the world, but if I can make a little bit of a difference in my little corner of it, that's good with me.

So we have no delusions about what we're doing here. We got chickens as tick control, and they've done a great job. When we got them, putting them on the table never crossed our minds. The eggs have been a happy bonus for eight years, and now the meat is too.

 

[Beer can]

I was just looking at the free cockerels listed near me this week.... 13 to good homes only and 11 with no stipulation as to what happens to them. Usually there are 6 or so a week listed.
if I wasn't so picky on what they ate, I could get these free birds, finish them out and have a lot of the chicken I want for almost free....

See it all the time. Right now winter here and I've put off processing two 40# turkeys and seven ducks and too many chickens for far too long. I'd be way ahead $ wise if I just advertised them free Lol! Hopefully I can get to work on processing them my next days off, hard to force myself though beings its deer season here, I'll probably end up buying more feed and putting it off till next week

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Well, here I am, late to the party again. Busy week. I read the OP and a lot of the responses, but not all. I really just want to respond to the OP, which I actually found very interesting and intriguing. And my opinion and experience may or may not reflect that of other people - but I want to say it anyway.

With my little flock that averages around 20 birds at any particular time, and given my little freezer, my health, my busy life, and other priorities, there is no way I can process upwards of 400 birds a year, but it was fascinating to learn that a family of four would actually require that many, so I wanted to thank @Shadrach for doing the math to come up with that bit of information.

In fact, I was real pleased to have processed somewhere between five and ten in the last year or so - or rather, to have produced them and HAD them processed, as I didn't actually butcher any of them myself. And they were delicious! That means that my family did not consume ten chickens that were produced in a less humane way, and I feel really good about that. I may not be able to save the world, but if I can make a little bit of a difference in my little corner of it, that's good with me.

So we have no delusions about what we're doing here. We got chickens as tick control, and they've done a great job. When we got them, putting them on the table never crossed our minds. The eggs have been a happy bonus for eight years, and now the meat is too.

Don't worry. Shad's numbers are WAY off by an order of ten. His numbers are based on his own chickens - free range game birds in the spanish mountains. His estimates assume they weigh about 2lbs dressed, free range every meal, and have a lot of losses and older birds.

In reality the average american eating DP chickens only would need to eat about 52 4-lb (dressed) birds to meet ALL their protein/meat needs for the year. (37 if 5-6lb CX) If eating the average amount of chicken an american eats it'd only be a bit under half that (only about 23 birds).
Eating even 3 less chickens (or 12 less lbs) of chicken per year from the grocery store is a 10-20% impact in regards to your personal, individual, chicken consumption.

Your impact matters.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Don't worry. Shad's numbers are WAY off by an order of ten. His numbers are based on his own chickens - free range game birds in the spanish mountains. His estimates assume they weigh about 2lbs dressed, free range every meal, and have a lot of losses and older birds.

In reality the average american eating DP chickens only would need to eat about 52 4-lb (dressed) birds to meet ALL their protein/meat needs for the year. (37 if 5-6lb CX) If eating the average amount of chicken an american eats it'd only be a bit under half that (only about 23 birds).
Eating even 3 less chickens (or 12 less lbs) of chicken per year from the grocery store is a 10-20% impact in regards to your personal, individual, chicken consumption.

Your impact matters.

Ah yes. By game birds I assume you mean bantams. They are smaller than my EEs and way smaller than a CornishX I believe.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Ah yes. By game birds I assume you mean bantams. They are smaller than my EEs and way smaller than a CornishX I believe.

Honestly I'm not sure what breed exactly but he references fayoumis and mixes thereof throughout the thread which are about 3-3.5lb birds as adult males. And he suggests 140g of protein per whole processed bird. A 4lb carcass has 350g of protein, so his suggested carcass size is about 1.6lbs by grams of protein. Very smol birbs.

 

[Kris5902]

From the introduction posts and early posts I think some do. I've read quite a few "I'm off to do homesteading type posts where making an impact on the chicken industry was one of the goals.
Even with ball park numbers the task is immeasurable. All those fast food joint aren't going to disappear overnight. Vast amounts of money in the industry. It's a bit like taking on the oil companies by producing your own bio fuel. You get the satisfaction of knowing you aren't giving them money directly but that's about it.

Ok, I had to call it quits at 150 some odd posts... I don’t have enough data or time to read through them all, and I have to say it gets pretty argumentative and repetitive.

My thoughts on the OP: no the average suburban backyard chicken keeper is not going to make a dint in the commercial chicken industry. I don’t think anyone here is really trying to, I probably come the closest, along with other small farmers. Even a 1-10 acre homestead or smallholding isn’t going to make any appreciable difference on the big picture, and I don’t think there are really that many threads out there suggesting that they will. We have 600 acres, and even if I filled them with chickens, I still couldn’t come close to having an impact on the meat industry at a provincial, national, or global scale. I have had a huge impact on my local market, even with less than 100 birds for meat and egg sales (I’m starting a small chicken based addition to the farm). I have not had to buy store bought meat other than pork for a year, but we also eat hunted meats (goat and venison), and our own beef and lamb.

With intensive management and a few acres (even free ranging, or with A rotational pasture system), I do think you can easily supply a family’s protein needs for chicken, but not based on a diet where the only protein source is chickens and eggs, with typical North American portions, or on the conventional 1/8 or 1/4 acre “backyard” of the average single family dwelling here. This is an unrealistic and a flawed premise.

Every personal choice to eat ethically raised animals instead of cheap factory farmed meats is a small step towards a more respectful and sustainable meat industry, even if only on a small, local scale. I do believe it is a positive step, and would not want to actively discourage anyone from raising their own meat (which, no offense intended, it seems like the OP is trying to do). The solution is simple, eat less meat of better quality and a varied diet with multiple protein sources. That’s a more realistic model to work from when considering this question.

On costs and sustainability, Sheep (100-150 breeding ewes) are the most pasture destructive, high maintenance, and least profitable of all the livestock we raise. Cows (14 head of breeding adults) are far more efficient in every aspect, goats would be great (Except that they always manage to escape and join the feral (600+) population, which thrives fabulously). The chickens (71 and still establishing the flocks) I put in between the sheep and cows for efficiency. But all of this is also affected by local climate, market, feed costs, breeds chosen, predator concerns, husbandry methods, and the type of pasture available.

In summary, there are just too many variables to make general for or against statements either way. Though I don’t like to consider myself to be “delusional”, I do plan on continuing to work within my local community encouraging local ethically raised products, and not financially supporting any part of the meat industry I find to not meet my standards for ethical treatment of animals. I’ve personally worked at two Abbatoirs, and toured another; though my husband has seen and worked at several more plants than I have as he’s a butcher by trade, so I’m not commenting from as delusional a perspective as it may seem initially.