How Many Eggs Will My Hens Really Lay?

[Fred's Hens]

When surfing BYC tonight, I read a thread about sex links and large egg size, and you had mentioned rationing the ISA's and how it kept the egg size to a dull roar. But there was also a thread inquiring at hen's age and peak egg size. I got one of those cute chicken shaped egg scales for Christmas. "Incredible egg scale" I think, old style with the counter weight. I wonder how accurate it is, but it's a great conversation piece for the countertop.
My hens started laying beginning of October and everyone was laying by end of November. The eggs are still medium sized. My friend who raises chickens tells me they'll be increasing til they're a year old, but elsewhere here I've read that they should have been laying their "size" earlier. I guess my question is now feed related and whether or not caloric or nutritional intake could be a factor in the eggs size of my hens.
They are measuring just inside the "small" line for a few of my Dominiques and 3/4 ofmy RC brown leghorns. Definitely in the medium zone for the other Dom and RCBL, and mid-high end of medium for my partridge rocks. I know that it's at least a little accurate, because I every time I see a large egg from the store, I am amazed at how large it is! I will also say that in the course of 2 weeks I went from 4-7 eggs a day I am now getting 7-10 eggs a day. With the sudden jump in production, I noticed that the egg size is also increasing. And there have been more funny oblong shaped eggs.
I am also wondering if they reached point of lay close to the reduction in daylight hours and that caused a delay in the eggs reaching the larger size.
I was just going to wait and see, but seeing these two posts tonight made me wonder and think. Me being new at this, the answer is probably a simple one.

 

[OkChickens]

Great points Fred! I really enjoy reading your Posts!

Nate

 

[Fred's Hens]

The Great Wallendas The high flying egg layers, ISA Browns, RSLs and other hyper-laying hybrids​

Great topic. Here is my experience. There are indeed hybrids developed to lay enormous eggs. These hens lay these eggs because the hybrid strains, like the ISA, were developed for this. The Delaware and the RIR are both large egg layers and since both of these pure breeds are/were used in the development of these commercial strains for the large, brown egg industry, this isn't a surprise. The commercial strains show up and get sold, so it would seem, as Red Sex Links or Gold Sex Links with lots of cute, hatchery names. The ISA isn't simply a Red rooster over a Silver hen. Actually, the ISA is a 4 way cross, making it the egg laying equivalent to the CornishX meat bird, also a 4 way cross, I believe.

The bottom line is that many of these strains lay HUGE eggs, virtually within a month of beginning laying, often within a week. It's all about breeding.

I have some Speckled Sussex, Barred Rocks, RIR and we have Australorps on one of our farms. While they lay a nice size egg, none of them lay an egg of THAT size as quickly, as often, or as universally, throughout the flock. None of them. It's all about the breeding.

The more "standard" breeds will occasionally lay a large egg. The egg size DOES increase over time. But, the commercial sex links flat out lay larger eggs, more quickly, more often, and more universally throughout the flock of their kind. The also lay more eggs per year as well. 3 to 4 dozen more eggs per year, per bird. It's all about the breeding.

These birds will, as I mentioned in the link referenced, if over fed, lay enormous eggs. That potential is there. I cannot be the only keeper of the ISA to have noted that propensity. I should also say that other RSLs I keep, birds I also believe that have commercial hybrid breeding, are very, very similar in that they too, if over fed, will pump out enormous brown eggs, eggs too big for any Extra Large egg carton. Some won't even fit in a Jumbo carton.

Commercial strains of RSL have a thin intestinal wall, I believe. This allows for exceptional feed uptake and uncanny feed conversion. I find the bird uses calories to make eggs, not gain weight. The birds often look frail and thin. They are. Their feathers rarely look nice. Again, it's all about breeding.
These traits are not an accident but have been intentionally bred into the strain over decades of specialized breeding by the poultry genetics conglomerates that produce them.

http://www.morrishatchery.com/mngmt_guides/ISA Brown Guide-Nov. 3,2010.pdf

While not exactly night time reading, nor a romance novel, this "owners manual" for the ISA Brown is very interesting reading. Well, OK, if you're a chicken geek it is, I suppose.

 

[tweetysvoice]

What wonderful writing! I love reading your way with words! This is the type of information that I'm always looking for. I love digging deeper into a subject than just a book from the bookstore can usually give me. It's the knowledge of "someone that's been there" plus someone who can give us technical details that the average reader can follow. Well done, sir! New thread to follow!

 

[off-grid hen]

Ok, so what I'm feeding is not related to egg size. Got it.

My girls' feathers look great. I like that they look good and aren't producing crazy numbers of eggs and ruining their bodies due to genetics/breeding for production. I don't need their eggs to be huge. I also don't heat my coop, so I know that they need to put the bulk of their calories and nutrients to staying warm and healthy in the cold.

As an experiment, I ordered 2 red stars with my order for the week of april 9th. It will be interesting to see how different they are.

I think one of the biggest challenges for me as a new chicken keeper is to erase the image of eggs from the store from my brain. More specifically, I need to be mentally aware that I not comparing the same thing when I compare them to eggs from my home flock. And I don't want them to be. It's like comparing myself to a model- it's counter-productive and can sometimes be damaging to one's physical and mental health.

Thanks for listening to my musings and answering my questions. Since I don't like romance novels, I am off the read the ISA Brown Owner's Manual.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Thank you all for the kind words. Musings. Precisely.

When's the last time you saw medium sized brown eggs sold in the grocery or market? Not very often, if ever. Most brown eggs marketed (either expressly organic or "cage free") are almost always very large brown eggs. Why? Because the poultry farmers who produce these eggs predominately buy their layers from hatcheries, commercial hatcheries, that sell them a commercial red sex link pullet. There are about 8 different "models" of a red/brown/gold sex link being produced by the poultry genetics conglomerates Read about the various "versions" of them here:

http://www.isapoultry.com/en/Products.aspx

The producers of brown market eggs are medium to large producers, having anywhere from 3000 layers to 20,000 layers at the farm. The genetics companies sell the commercial hatcheries parent stock and the hatcheries in turn sell either day old chicks or POL pullets to the farms.

Bottom line? The farms that are producing the large brown eggs for the supermarkets are NOT buying Barred Rocks, RIR, Australorps, Buff Orpintons, etc from Ideal, Myers, Cackle hatcheries that the retail consumer favors. The homesteader and back yard keeper enjoys these various breeds, but they simple do not lay the size nor quantity of eggs required. The traditional breeds don't have the feed conversion necessary either. The physical size of a more traditional breed is not seen as a plus to a commercial egg operation. The commercial hen begins laying profusely at 16 weeks, while other traditional breeds may take up to 6 months to come into lay. The farms are using commercial brown/red/gold Shavers, ISA, Babcocks, Hendrix, DeKalbs, Bovans, HiSex birds.

 

[off-grid hen]

Thank you all for the kind words.  Musings.  Precisely.

When's the last time you saw medium sized brown eggs sold in the grocery or market?  Not very often, if ever.  Most brown eggs marketed (either expressly organic or "cage free") are almost always very large brown eggs.  Why?  Because the poultry farmers who produce these eggs predominately buy their layers from hatcheries, commercial hatcheries, that sell them a commercial red sex link pullet.  There are about 8 different "models" of a red/brown/gold sex link being produced by the poultry genetics conglomerates  Read about the various "versions" of them here:  

http://www.isapoultry.com/en/Products.aspx
 
The producers of brown market eggs are medium to large producers, having anywhere from 3000 layers to 20,000 layers at the farm.   The genetics companies sell the commercial hatcheries parent stock and the hatcheries in turn sell either day old chicks or POL pullets to the farms.  
 
Bottom line?   The farms that are producing the large brown eggs for the supermarkets are NOT buying Barred Rocks, RIR, Australorps, Buff Orpintons, etc from Ideal, Myers, Cackle hatcheries that the retail consumer favors. The homesteader and back yard keeper enjoys these various breeds, but they simple do not lay the size nor quantity of eggs required.  The traditional breeds don't have the feed conversion necessary either. The physical size of a more traditional breed is not seen as a plus to a commercial egg operation.  The commercial hen begins laying profusely at 16 weeks, while other traditional breeds may take up to 6 months to come into lay.  The farms are using commercial brown/red/gold Shavers, ISA, Babcocks, Hendrix, DeKalbs, Bovans, HiSex birds.  
 
 

I just wish that others would understand the same thing. I keep seeing that people are disappointed that their hens won't lay through the winter, when they probably aren't genetically capable of it in the first place.

 

[questions543]

I am so glad I found this thread.. It has put alot into porportion for me because I am starting to get chickens. I plan on getting one leghorn and the rest heritage breeds because they lay for longer.
Freds hens you have been a great help along with everyone on BYC.

 

[heybarb]

Thanks for the articles!! It has definitely been interesting reading! I have to admit that I have the barnyard mix of chicks that haven't started laying yet. My husband loves our little OEGBs and I told him that I can hardly wait until they start laying so that he can say he had "six eggs and toast for breakfast." 6 store bought eggs would be impossible to eat in one meal, but 6 little banty eggs should be a lot easier!!

 

[Kimbroe1981]

Chickens Don't Really Lay For Us Anyhow

I recently read someone here on BYC who said, in effect, "God made the Jungle Fowl, man made the chicken."

That is good insight to the process of domestication. This truism also provides insight as to the purpose of a chicken laying eggs. It is good to remember that chickens do not lay eggs for us. Actually, the egg is not particularly intended as food at all, except for the embryonic chick being formed. The reason a hen lays an egg is to reproduce. We need to realize, I suppose, that a chicken's urge and need to reproduce would only require it to lay one successful clutch per year. If a hen laid a dozen eggs, of which she succeeded in bring forth 8 viable chicks, she would likely have done her biological duty to her species.

If she laid two clutches per year, climate permitting, and hatched out 16 or 18 of her kind, she would be doing so because her species required her to be just that prolific. Since the chicken is nowhere near the top of the food chain, nature no doubt requires a hen to lay somewhere around two dozen eggs per year, for propagation of the species. It is unlikely that many more than that is required. Some "breeds" of chicken obviously inherited the capacity to do far more, however.

Enter the domestication process. A process that in some degree has been going on for almost 4000 years. Through the keeping of chickens, and through selective breeding, the explosion of poultry science in the 19th century, and the discovery of dietary requirements, the domesticated chicken began to be bred to produce more and more eggs. Cross breeding, poultry association contests, and the establishment of breed standards all served to push the chicken to higher levels. The discovery of Vitamin D and its function in the early 1920's was huge. Poultry science was coming of age. The use of technology, including massive artificial incubators and brooders changed the nature of chicken reproduction and the production of chickens for the first time in 3900 years. Breeding was achieving lay rates of astounding success. The world wide poultry industry was exploding. The discovery by Thomas Edison in how to harness electricity allowed for new found studies in the photo reactive nature of a hen, how it is production could be ramped up, even during winter, through the introduction of artificial lighting, things never before done. The world's population was exploding, life expectancy was growing and the need for more food was ever increasing.

Still, there would be more to come in the fields of genetics and further knowledge of dietary requirements. The modern "meat bird" varieties almost spelled doom of the dual purpose bird. What with hyper layers on one hand and hyper growing meat breeds on the other, what would become of the old standby, dual purpose chicken?

When I was a young man, keeping flocks, a meat bird meant a standard White Rock or that new Delaware bird and a "layer" meant you kept Leghorns. There was no CornishX. I had heard of barnyard mixes and mutts, but had never heard of a specialty hybrid. Who could have imagined that birds would be "patented" and seen as a genetic commodity? I had never heard of the Institut de Selection Animale, nor Hubbard, Hi-Sex, Bovan, Shaver, DeKalb, Babcock or any other of the "genetics" conglomerate.

Which brings us full circle to what we enjoy in our "backyard" flocks. If all we genuinely cared about was eggs, eggs and more eggs, then we would stack up cages in our garages and fill them with Leghorns or other commercial layers. I suspect we have other goals in mind, whether we are interested in chickens as part of a natural, organic, sustainable agriculture endeavor or whether some of us just like the chicken as a pet. After all these years, the lowly chicken still amazes me. I am in awe of their abilities and attributes. There is something about husbandry that can bring out the best in us. A wise old guy once told me, "Never trust a guy that dogs don't like".

Although I have a few earned degrees in human behavioral sciences, I suspect that old guy was on to something, at least. For many of the same reasons I garden and enjoy growing plants and harvesting the produce of those labors, husbandry adds an important dimension to life. It's about caring for a flock. I suspect it helps bring out the best in me. It challenges me. It is earthy and basic and human. Some things not easily experienced in our modern, techno world any other way. I reflect on these things and do not take them for granted.

Apparently, I'm a bit emotional today! Got a little teary eyed on that one!

I'm LOVING reading your little articles!