How many wine makers do we have here?

[muddstopper]

How long does everybody usually wait inbetween racking? My first racking usually takes place 9 to 14 days after I start the must. This is usually when I remove the must from the primary (5gal bucket) and put it into the secondary, (my 1gal carbouys). Since I also usually add more sugar at this time, I end up with quite a bit of sediment again and will rack off in 30 days. I will repeat this every 30 days until the wine suits my taste for alcohol and dryness. Once that level has been achieved. I leave the wine alone until it is pretty much clear before I will rack it off again. This is when I will filter it thru a cotton cloth while racking and put back in the carbouy for another month before bottleing.

I do all sorts of things to my wine that other folks dont agree with, such as adding sugar in increments, but I will also add more fruit if the taste isnt where I like it. I have a apple pie wine making right now that I just threw in a couple of sticks of cinnammon, some cloves and nutmeg , as well as another gallon of apple cider, right after straining the must out of the primary. I believe one should taste the source material in the finished product, whether the wine is made from grapes, apples, or whatever. Anything else and you have just made alcohol out of otherwise edible fruit. Yea I know, I am demented, hard headed, stuck in my ways, and lots of other things one can think of.

 

[2overeasy000]

The wine coming out as "You" like it, is really the only thing that matters. I have also used cinnamon sticks, anise, thai basil and I love using ginger root.

Adding honey to fruit wines also acts as a natural preservative. The hotter you heat the honey, the more subtle flavors of the honey you lose, though.

Apple pie sounds interesting. What kind of apples did you use?

 

[Totalcolour]

Quote:
You are making wine in a very different way than I do, so your racking techniques are also very different. I wait until the must is fully fermented, then rack into carboys. At this time I do an acid titration (well, hubby does) and adjust if necessary. Since I like my wine fully dry, I don't add additional sugar.

When the wine had dropped a good sediment, will rack again. Usually only rack a couple of times before it's nice and clear.

Then's it's bottling and labeling and then waiting for a time to get past any bottle shock. Then the fun part - DRINKING it!

 

[Blue Ridge Hillbilly]

I am glad someone mentioned that they "added sugar in increments". I have always added all the sugar to the must in the beginning. I always make sure that it is in syrup form and fully dissolved. What is the reason for adding in increments? I can understand if you wanted more alcohol after the process is started that you can raise the alcohol by adding sugar but is there any other reason? Thanks.

 

[oesdog]

Bottling today!!!!!!!!!

Not sure why we didn;t do it earlier but we didn;t have time so hopefully it will taste even better?

Oesdog - 2 Demi-johns of wine and 1 beer keg my arms will ache tonight!!!!!!

 

[muddstopper]

Quote:
For my apple pie wine I am using a Yates, which is a small, semi tart, red apple. I picked these apples up from a orchard between Clayton Ga and Westminister SC. This is the only place I have found that grows this particular apple type. I also like Arkansaw blacks because of the deep red color of the peels that gives my apple wine a red tint in the finished product. These apples I bought at Barbers Orchard in Waynesville NC. I peel the Arkansaw blacks and seep the peels in hot water just to get the color, and pour the juice in my must. The actual apple part my wife makes into pies. I supplement the Yates apples with store bought pasturized apple cider that doesnt contain any preservatives. The cider I bought at Merciers Orchard in Blueridge Ga. This is my first attempt at the applepie wine, it might turn out and then it might get poured out, only time will tell. DW also has some peppermint apple wine about ready to bottle. She used peppermint she grew as well as some flavored teabags and I dont know what else. It sure does smell good, but sofar she hasnt let me taste test it.

 

[muddstopper]

Quote:
OK, some or most wont agree with me about adding the sugar in increments, but this is why I do it. JMO and doesnt make me right!

First I dont like a overly dry wine, I am not that big a fan of how alcohol taste and prefer to taste the fruit in my wines. If I try to add all the sugar at the start of the process, I have no control as to how the finished product will turn out, once the sugar is added, you cant take it out. I have found that by adding only a fraction of the sugar at the start, my must will usually turn out about 5% alcohol in about 2wks. I can add more sugar, and raise the alcohol to 10%. Wine needs about 12%-13% alcohol to act as a preservative and not spoil. With that alcohol level as my target point, I just keep adding sugar and creep up on that desired level. Yea, I know I can use a hydrometer and do all the math and come close to that number at the start of the fermentation process, but I have found that by doing so, I lose most of the fruit taste. Going slowly seems, at least to me, to hold on to the fruit taste better, so thats why I add sugar in increments instead of all at once.

Second, Yeast needs more than just sugar to ferment properly, which is why some people will add a nutrient package to the start of their must. Most of the nutrient packages on the market are nothing more than farm fertilizers, such as Diammonium Phophate, (18/46/0), Potassium Nitrate, (potassium and nitrogen) and other fertilizer blends. Might as well use 10/10/10 fertilizer. Of course there are more organic nutrient packages as well. I could go on about this, but to sum it all up, all of these nutrients are found naturally in the fruit already, it isnt until you start adding the sugar that the nutrient levels get out of balance. THATS MY OPINION ONLY. By adding sugar in increments, I get a slow, but steady fermentation, without haveing to add nutrient or fertilizer packages. It should be noted that grapes seem to have the best balance of nutrients and are the easiest fruits to make wine from because of this, its the fruit wines that give most of the problems. To much sugar at the start, and not enought nutrients can endup with a stuck fermentation.

One other thing to consider if you decide to add sugar in increments, you have to pay attention to your product. As mentioned, wines need a alcohol level of around 12%-13% in order to keep from spoiling. Adding sugar in increments wont product that kind of alcohol level at the start of the process. This means that if you forget about the fermenting must for a long period of time, you could endup with a vinegar, or a rotten mess. I watch my airlocks and when they quit bubbleing, its time to do something, rack and add more sugar if needed or bottle if the wine is clear.

 

[Dawn419]

Quote:
Welcome to our madnes!

muddstopper
11/12/2011 7:30 am How long does everybody usually wait inbetween racking? My first racking usually takes place 9 to 14 days after I start the must. This is usually when I remove the must from the primary (5gal bucket) and put it into the secondary, (my 1gal carbouys). Since I also usually add more sugar at this time, I end up with quite a bit of sediment again and will rack off in 30 days. I will repeat this every 30 days until the wine suits my taste for alcohol and dryness. Once that level has been achieved. I leave the wine alone until it is pretty much clear before I will rack it off again. This is when I will filter it thru a cotton cloth while racking and put back in the carbouy for another month before bottleing.

I do all sorts of things to my wine that other folks dont agree with, such as adding sugar in increments, but I will also add more fruit if the taste isnt where I like it. I have a apple pie wine making right now that I just threw in a couple of sticks of cinnammon, some cloves and nutmeg , as well as another gallon of apple cider, right after straining the must out of the primary. I believe one should taste the source material in the finished product, whether the wine is made from grapes, apples, or whatever. Anything else and you have just made alcohol out of otherwise edible fruit. Yea I know, I am demented, hard headed, stuck in my ways, and lots of other things one can think of.

This is our second experiment so we're following in your footsteps just because what you're doing makes sense to us.

Our pear wine (from last year) was drier than I preferred so we're adding sugar in increments this year and when I'd read your post about honey and fruit wine, well, I just had to tell dh how it was gonna be!

We try and rack every 30 days but we're behind at this point by about a week. Hoping we'll be okay!

We are in this for the fun of it and it's still fun, so we're fine! Then there is the shock factor from other people that we're doing this while living in a 22' camper. I personally think that the "shock factor" adds a lot of flavor!

 

[Totalcolour]

Wine Nutrients

All organisms (humans included) need nutrition in order to survive, and thrive. Different kinds of organisms may have different nutrient requirements. Wine yeasts are no exception. Commercial wine grapes “usually” contain enough nutrients and micronutrients to perform satisfactorily when fermented, but most fruits do not. So, in order to obtain a successful fermentation, it may be necessary to add nutrients and micronutrients to the must prior to fermentation.

One particular nutrient, DAP, or Diamonium Phosphate, (NH4)2HPO4 (haven't figured out how to do subscripts!) had been give a bad rap by some, who compare it to eating fertilizer! While DAP “can” be used as a fertilizer, it is also used as a yeast nutrient in winemaking and brewing mead; to prevent afterglow in matches, in purifying sugar; as a Flux for soldering tin, copper, zinc and brass; to control precipitation of alkali-soluble and acid-insoluble colloidal dyes on wool, and as an additive in some brands of cigarettes purportedly as a nicotine enhancer.

I think that the use of the word “fertilizer” gives a negative connotation – one may think of manure for example. Lets stick to science here. DAP is a chemical compound that can benefit winemaking by giving yeast the foods they need to grow. I wouldn’t eat it, although I’m sure in small amounts it certainly wouldn’t harm me. It smells pretty bad though, and tastes nasty too, but it seems to suit the little yeasties just fine.

I encourage everyone to read papers and books written by professionals about winemaking before choosing whether on not to use chemical additions to their wine. A full understanding will aid the hobbyist in making the best possible wines, with greater success rates.

I know some people don’t want to add “toxins” into their wine that may end up in their body. All I can say is, that to die from DAP poisoning, you would have to consume so much wine that you would be dead hundreds of times over from a far more lethal substance.

So, what is this toxic substance you may ask, that you are willingly putting into your body? Why, Alcohol of course!

U.C. Davis is one of the leading educational institutes in the country for winemaking, and has produced some of the finest winemakers in the world. Another resource, is The American Wine society. Books from both these places are available and are easy to understand, even by us non scientific folk!

 

[muddstopper]

Quote:
OK, Science it is.

Dap, Diammonium Phosphate is derived from dead sea organisims that lived in the ocean millions of years ago. As these organisims died and settled to the bottom of the ocean and eventually became mineral deposits in the form of TriCalcium Phosphate. This mineral is mined in places like Occidental Florida, and Gulf, NorthCarolina. After mineing, the mineral is crushed into a powder and treated with sulfuric acid to remove the Calcium and other nutrients from the source rock. This will yeild a Super Phosphate fertilizer called 10/20/0. This refined fertilizer will also contain a pretty good amount of sulfur, leftovers from the source rock as well as the sulfuric acid the rock was treated with. Now in a blind attemp of agriculture to provide a more pure source of phosphate, a much needed nutrient for growing crops, the Super phosphate is again treated with Phosphoric acid to strip the remaining sulfur from the fertilizer to give a Tripple Super Phosphate fertilizer, 0/46/0. Since crops cant live on Phosphate alone, the tripple super phosphate is again treated with Ammonia to produce Dap, 18/46/0. Now it should also be noted that tripple super phosphate makes a very poor phosphate source for growing crops. It was proven back in the 1950's by the TVA that this source of Phosphate will become completely bound up in the soil in the best growing season in as little as 3 to 4 wks, and become completely unavailable to the plants growing there. Also since the Phosphate is a tripple Anion nutrient, it binds to other neccessary nutrients and makes them unavailable also. The end result of all this nutrient tieup is the phosphate converts back to its original form of tricalcium Phosphate. One other thing to think about is to much Phosphate inhibits the growth of the Micorhizia fungi, a benefitual fungi neccesary for optimal plant growth and needed by over 90% of all plant life.

Potassium nitrate is also one of those nutrients that comes from once living animals. The main source is Guano, bat poop, yep one of those manures you dont want to think about. It is also used to make gun powder, and is commonly called Saltpeter.

More science, Plants need a balance of nutrients in order to grow and produce. Since the big invention of big tractors and plows and improvements and availability of commercial fertilizers, the nutrient content of the crops being grown has actually decreased. (brix levels in corn are actually 40% lower now than they where back in the 40's.) One would think with all the tons of fertilizer being applied every year to all the farm lands that our crops would be nutrient rich. Not true, science seems to want to rely on a few nutrients, Nitrogen, Phosphate and Potassium as the main nutrient supplement for growing all crops. Things like Calcium, Sulfur and Magnesium are often overlooked. Not to mention other micro nutrients such as Iron, Nickle, Copper, Zinc, Molybinate, Manganese. I Have left out a few agriculture knows about as necessary and I am sure there are others that science hasnt figured out that are necessary also. My point, is that grapes are not immune to nutrient deficiencies and neither are any of the other many fruits that are being used to produce wine. If the nutrients are not in the soil, or are deficient in the soil, the plants growing there will also be deficient. With this in mind, it only seems reasonable to assume that adding a nutrient package to our wines only makes perfect sense. With that in mind, I point out the problems encountered with the tripple super phosphate and nutrient tieup, while it might seem like a good ideal, the phosphate is only one of the necessary nutrients needed to make a good wine. Without testing of the wine must for the proper nutrient levels, adding anything is only a guess.