How much Diatomaceous Earth per 50 lbs. of feed?

[Bear Foot Farm]

To say that it is not beneficial to certain breed does not mean it doesn't work.

Nothing in that study ever stated it was good for killing internal parasites.
It's a definite "maybe"

The results of this study indicate the DE has the potential to be an effective treatment to help control parasites and improve production of organically raised, free-range layer hens.

The other"benefits" they listed are meaningless since the birds were free ranged and not on a truly controlled diet.

They said the birds "ate more, weighed more, and laid more eggs, but that isn't proof the DE CAUSED those things.

If they ate more, it's only natural they would be heavier and lay more eggs even without DE

The only way to really test the effects of DE alone would be by feediing both groups the SAME amounts of feed, and not let them free range during the testing.

This study is used repeatedly to "prove DE kills internal parasites because it's the only study that remotely suggests it.

There are numerous scientific studies done by Veterinarians and universities who all concluded feeding it has NO effect on internal parasites.

However, BB hens treated with dietary DE had significantly lower Capillaria FEC, slightly lower Eimeria FEC, fewer birds infected with Heterakis, and significantly lower Heterakis worm burden than control BB hens

Note the "worms" they tested for are not that common in chickens, and don't cause much of a problem for them.
They counted on most people not knowing that, I guess

http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/disparas.htm

This parasite (Heterakis gallinae) is found in the ceca of chickens, turkeys and other birds.

This parasite apparently does not seriously affect the health of the bird

Capillaria (Capillary or Thread Worms)

There are several species of Capillaria that occur in poultry. Capillaria annulata and Capillaria contorta occur in the crop and esophagus. These may cause thickening and inflammation of the mucosa, and occasionally severe losses are sustained in turkeys and game birds.

Eimeria isn't a worm at all, but is a single celled Coccidia parasite that doesn't even lay eggs, so for them to say the FEC (Fecal EGG Count) was lower lessens their credibility

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccidia

Tell me if i'm reading something wrong here. Basically, unless chickens are some kind of super bird strain that has increased parasite resistance and super high laying capacity, DE would work very well with your flock.

Since everyone concurs DE is mechanical in the way it kills, then logically it should perform identically no matter how "resistant" the host birds happen to be​

 

[whaledancer]

Note the "worms" they tested for are not that common in chickens, and don't cause much of a problem for them.
They counted on most people not knowing that, I guess

So it's your contention that the Avian Research Centre at the University of British Columbia is part of some pro diatomaceous earth lobby, and they’re trying to put on over on people? And Poultry Science is a peer-reviewed journal, so the peer reviewers would have to be pro-DE, too.

This study is used repeatedly to prove DE kills internal parasites because it's the only study that remotely suggests it.

I wouldn’t have posted it if I had realized it had been “used repeatedly.” I thought that since it had only been published two months ago, people might not have seen it. Specifically, Sonoran Silkies said “The only studies I have found that support that hypothesis are by those selling it,” so I thought she’d be interested in this one conducted by a university.​

 

[dawg53]

Does anyone here know what "Eimeria" is? It is coccidia. Cocci is a protozoa. So now the Avian Research Center at the University of British Columbia is claiming that DE kills cocci/protozoa!?
That is a bunch of BUNK!!! Go read the threads in the emergency section and see what cures all 9 types of cocci that chickens can get....it's NOT DE!!!!
Edited: Treat your chicks/chickens for cocci with DE and they will spread it to others and die, that is a fact.
Some of you here already know what treats cocci because you've dealt with it!

 

[remadl700]

Quote:

I like to keep the flock as chemical free as possible and this string shows the benefits of DE but it is not a cure all!!!!!!

Some times you must intervene with specific chemicals targeted at the known symptoms.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

So it's your contention that the Avian Research Centre at the University of British Columbia is part of some pro diatomaceous earth lobby, and they’re trying to put on over on people? And Poultry Science is a peer-reviewed journal, so the peer reviewers would have to be pro-DE, too.

I never said one word about the Research Centre.
I have no idea who supplies their funding, or who paid for this study

I pointed out the flaws in the report"
Peer reviewed" means nothing, in light of the fact that many other studies refute these results.

You cannot look at ONE report , and pick out a few sentences you happen to agree with, and decide they reached a true conclusion.

I already showed where THEY said " DE has potential"

That's hardly a declaration of scientific certainty​

 

[redjess1984]

Tractor supply carries it here in Tn so maybe other places will start carrying it too.

 

[whaledancer]

Quote:
I never said one word about the Research Centre.
I have no idea who supplies their funding, or who paid for this study

I pointed out the flaws in the report"
Peer reviewed" means nothing, in light of the fact that many other studies refute these results.

You cannot look at ONE report , and pick out a few sentences you happen to agree with, and decide they reached a true conclusion.

I already showed where THEY said " DE has potential"

That's hardly a declaration of scientific certainty

Sorry, I must have misunderstood. When you said "Note the 'worms' they tested for are not that common in chickens, and don't cause much of a problem for them.
They counted on most people not knowing that, I guess," I thought you were implying that "they" (the people who did the study, the Avian Research Centre) were being misleading.

I guess we'll just have to disagree about the value of peer review. It's not foolproof, but I do think that peer review tends to point out flaws in study design, methodology and conclusions.

I haven't "looked at ONE report , and picked out a few sentences I happen to agree with, and decided they reached a true conclusion." Actually, I haven't decided anything. I have no opinion one way or the other, no ax to grind. All I did was point out that there had been a study published recently in a peer-reviewed journal, which wasn't conducted by people selling DE. That's all. I'm not trying to persuade anyone for or against DE. I take it that some people have passionate opinions about it; I had no idea it was so controversial.

Well, it's been an illuminating first post on the forum.

 

[BoltonChicken]

I can guarantee you that DE does NOT kill weevils. I have some living in pure DE, and they are healthier than I am.

 

[MAS Dist]

Hello,

I'm posting from my phone, so i'll be short. I supply most grades of DE through our distribution company, and i work a lot with the Ag and Dairy industries in CA. I'm not in the business of selling snake oil and only provide what these multimillion dollar companies need. I'll try to address some questions, but bear in mind i don't work with the poultry guys much, so my knowledge with chickens is limited. Regardless, some of this will cross industries.
DE is fossilized remains of microscopic diatoms, correct. It's structure will damage the exoskeleton of most insects, eggs and larvae, and it's moisture absorbing qualities destroy them quickly by absorbing the lipids/moisture. This data is commonly known but the one poster there seems to like hard data from someone else than guys like me (I understand). I will refer you to IL Dept of Ag, IA state university, USDA, EPA, etc. If you email me, most of these reports i have available (very large pdfs that will make you drowsy - you've been warned)

The parasite question - all we have are the multitude of trial reports and field reports on cattle/horse/sheep/goats; no state /fed verifiable data. The problem is this - we can see that all the animals in the DE test groups had improved variables, but we can't specifically say WHY. Science is fun that way. Once they figure out how it's improving health and productivity, trust me, i'll scream it from the rooftops. But really, the reason you don't see us clamoring for hard studies is that the industries want it cause they SEE it working without bad side effects, so they don't care HOW it works, they just care that they know it's improving quality of life and profit.

The amount question - USDA recommends at least 2%, manufacturer says you can do up to 10-15%. I say, 2-5% as thats what the industries do. 1# per 50# feed is a good average.

DE can also be used as a good duster, and is absolutely critical for the organic industry as commodities go. BUT, as the beekeeper stated, be careful as DE doesn't discriminate - it'll take out bees too. Check with your local beekeepers for best periods to apply, they'll be a bevy of info. Bees are a precious commodity - please heed the advice!

If you are in the Western US states, contact us at [email protected] for help. I deal in truckloads of DE, other minerals, etc, but i love to help anyone regardless of size.

I hope i could help a little. I'll try to remember to check back here for any followup, but no promises! It's better to email me for questions.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

In it they state, "DE had no effect
on the number of hens infected, FEC, or worm burdens. However, body
mass and egg production were greater in hens consuming the DE diets.
These hens also laid larger eggs with thicker shells. The results of this
study suggest that there is no evidence that DE is an effective treatment
to control gastrointestinal parasitic infections of free-range laying hens.

The majority of those who claim it works are still those who SELL it