How much protein is REALLY needed for layers?

[HoopyFrood]

I have seen many recommendations on BYC for 20-22% protein feed for laying chickens, but I have not seen those recommendations elsewhere.

I don't know if dual-purpose heritage breeds (which we have) versus strict layer breeds (which we do not have) are a factor. But all the recommendations I have found from feed manufacturers is 16-18% protein is what's needed for layers. Moreover the only feeds I can find in shops nearby is 16-17%.

So that's what we feed them and that's the only food we feed them apart from treats. We have a zero scratch policy. They do get treats twice a day (when the ground is either frozen or covered in snow) which range from brassicas and greens to oilseeds to Grubblies... in the real cold weather we tend to lean more to the oilseed/Grubblie combos. Treats total probably about 1/4 Cup per day per bird. They get far less treats when the weather is nice and we can take them out on foraging rounds once or twice per day.

We have seen no signs of protein deficiencies. This is their first winter so I shouldn't be surprised they lay, but they are champion egg layers even in the horrid winter storms when there was less than 8 hours of daylight (we use no supplemental light). We've only hit 12 hours of light right now and they're still laying like clockwork.

I have no easy/economical way to boost their protein levels. But there also doesn't seem to be a need for more protein given their behavior. Can someone enlighten me as to why the recommendation of 20-22% protein feed? Many thanks!

 

[Ol Grey Mare]

16% protein should be sufficient to support production..... the higher protein allows for a)variances in other intake that can lower overall protein of the diet and b) feeding a flock with mixed nutritional breeds such as younger birds who need the extra protein. I, personally, prefer not to use minimums for nutrients

 

[HoopyFrood]

16% protein should be sufficient to support production..... the higher protein allows for a)variances in other intake that can lower overall protein of the diet and b) feeding a flock with mixed nutritional breeds such as younger birds who need the extra protein. I, personally, prefer not to use minimums for nutrients

Makes sense! We'd don't have a mixed flock either. Understood about not shooting for the minimum. Our hands are tied with the feed we can purchase.

But I'm hoping to be phasing into growing my own feed over the next 3 years. So minimums will become much less of an issue once that's done. Just have to build up the soil first! A work in progress

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Hi Mary.

I like to use 20-22% protein for my dual purpose layers because it has been shown to give better hatch rates. Which to me says better nutrition for my family... and I DO hatch.

I actually think 18-20% is pretty good for most DP breeds and if you go too high can be detrimental also. That would be 30% or so.

In addition many of the 16% layer feeds have the calcium added in at a rate of about 4% which is too much and *could* (doesn't mean will) cause kidney problems such as gout or failure if fed long term for birds not in lay like chicks, juveniles, molting, broody, or roosters. Since I always have them all in my flock... feeding Flock Raiser with 20% protein and oyster shell on the side free choice for layers is what works really well for me. (I cut in turkey feed if I want it higher for chicks or molt). Now the extra protein will especially benefit the ladies during molt because feathers are made from 90% protein and the amino acids it contains. Feeding higher protein during that time, helps feathers grow back in faster, fuller, shinier... show breeders know this and feed high protein for that very reason. For me I see my ladies take shorter molting session usually returning back to lay very rapidly as it simply doesn't take as long to replenish their stores of energy.

A grower with 18% is also a good choice for DP ladies with OS on the side. Noting some of the really heavy feathered breeds may benefit the most from "more" protein.

Since you don't diminish your feed with empty calories (low vitamin, mineral, and amino acid content)... you will probably be fine. Some people simply don't realize scratch is not feed and that's when they find trouble. They will be giving it 50/50. I don't understand because it seems just as expensive to me.

My supporting link (just one source)... One typo says 5-17% and should say 15-17%..
http://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/files/186894.pdf

You seem like you have GOT this! Being aware of possible issues really is half the battle.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Hi Mary.

I like to use 20-22% protein for my dual purpose layers because it has been shown to give better hatch rates. Which to me says better nutrition for my family... and I DO hatch.
...

My supporting link (just one source)... One typo says 5-17% and should say 15-17%..
http://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/files/186894.pdf

You seem like you have GOT this! Being aware of possible issues really is half the battle.

So much in there, ES4L, thank you!! Let's hit the bullet points...

We are not planning on hatching, so no worries there.

Now that is fascinating about the Ca supplement rates, I had never heard that... My feed analysis says 3.7-4.5% Ca. So obviously, once they stop laying, we'll need to come up with a new plan (if we're still relying on packaged feed). BUT I also have free choice crushed oyster shell offered too them right now. And they DO eat it, although not in large quantities.

Could this be problematic? I figured (rightly or wrongly) that if the needed Ca, they'd eat it. If they didn't, they wouldn't. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

The turkey feed during molt is an awesome idea. My feed co (Poulin) does have a decent sounding turkey feed, so hopefully I can find it at my local market.

If the girls are not synchronized in their molt what ratio of 16.5% layer and 20% turkey (plus free choice OS) should I offer the flock? Maybe 50/50?

Unfortunately the Poulin grower feed is only 15% - it's a grower/finisher feed. So I don't think that'll work. Our local market has one other brand (I don't know what it is) that's organic (so it costs more)... I'll at least price it out and grab the ingredient/analysis of what they offer. Maybe a few bucks is no big deal if they have the right product?

And your "just one" link is better than anything I've stumbled onto so far [chicken books: a love/hate relationship] so I'll give that a read tonight!

Thank you again!!

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Every time an oil seed or some other treat is provided the total protein content of your flock's feed is reduced. A 16% protein laying ration is designed to mimic the protein requirements of an actively laying hen that she would find on what used to be called a "Farm Walk".

A farm walk was an arrangement between a game chicken enthusiast and a local farmer or sharecropper that allowed a game fowl enthusiasts to keep or walk one of his roosters at the farmer or sharecroppers house in exchange for the payment of a couple of dollars each and every time the enthusiast checked on, picked up, or put down (as in leave) a new rooster at the farmers' barn yard. Up until about 1940 some men made a good living walking or procuring farm walks for wealthy game fowl enthusiasts. The game roosters usually remained on a walk for 6 months up to 3 years when the rooster was picked back up and a cockerel was substituted for the "cock-of-the-walk". I can't say how much the old game fowl enthusiasts ideas about farm walks influence today's chicken keepers concerning free range poultry but the influence was large.

Today healthier, stronger, and more active chickens can be raised in a pen walk than can be reliably produced on a farm walk.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

.... that is fascinating about the Ca supplement rates,... once they stop laying, we'll need to come up with a new plan (if we're still relying on packaged feed). BUT I also have free choice crushed oyster shell offered too them right now. And they DO eat it, although not in large quantities...

Consider pig chow or hog food.

3. Meat and Bone Meal.

Meat by-products are often economically feasible to add to swine diets. In general, meat and bone meal is an excellent source of calcium and phosphorus. However, it is often very low in tryptophan and methionine. Since there is considerable variation in the type and quality of the raw materials used, there is potential for greater variation in the quality of meat and bone meal. However, excessive heating during the processing of meat and bone meal may decrease its digestibility and value as a protein source. Therefore, it is recommended that meat and bone meal should not exceed 25 percent of the protein supplement.

Read the entire article by clicking below.
https://en.engormix.com/pig-industry/articles/amino-acids-swine-nutrition-t35745.htm

 

[HoopyFrood]

Consider pig chow or hog food.

3. Meat and Bone Meal.

...

Read the entire article by clicking below.
https://en.engormix.com/pig-industry/articles/amino-acids-swine-nutrition-t35745.htm

Thanks for the feedback! I've been researching making complete amino profiles in various cereals/legumes combinations - mostly for myself, actually (aspiring vegetarian)... I have been hesitant to use animal-derived products for the chickens (other than what they devour while on walkabout, of course! And a smattering of Grublies in the winter: $ ) for the same reasons...

But it never hurts to research all avenues! Looks like I've got more homework to do. Again.

Gotta sign off for tonight folks - Thank you all again!

 

[lazy gardener]

Hoopy, check out the old books: Diet for a small planet, and Recipes for a small planet. They have very good charts about complementing proteins. (these books are old, but the info in them is classic)

 

[HoopyFrood]

Hoopy, check out the old books: Diet for a small planet, and Recipes for a small planet. They have very good charts about complementing proteins. (these books are old, but the info in them is classic)

I wasn't even aware of Lappe's work until I read Fukuoka's The One Straw Revolution last January... it was the 2008 reprint with an introduction by Lappe'. She sounded interesting! How am I ever going to get any actual work done with this ever-expanding reading list?!