How much Tetroxy HCA-280 per gallon?

[dosacres]

Hello all,
I'm trying to figure out how much Tetroxy HCA-280 per gallon I need for a respiratory problem. The directions on the package are pretty ... well, awful. If I understand correctly, I need 400-800 mg per gallon, which I think is about 1 1/2 teaspoons for the higher dosage. Is this correct?
Thank you!

 

[dosacres]

Thanks! Also just found a medicating chart:

https://sites.google.com/a/poultrypedia.com/poultrypedia/medicine-chart

It indicates 1/8 tsp cup, or 2 tsp per gallon, so it was in the ballpark.

 

[wasteaway]

I'm curious to see if anyone can/will either confirm or dispute the information I posted. I did the math multiple times and I believe the doses I cited are correct but I may have missed something.

 

[ck-newbe]

Hi wasteaway,
We're going through the exact same math this morning. (The Ag Extension suggested going ahead with antibiotics although we cannot confirm a bacterial infection. I'm skeptical because of fears of overmedication and bacterial resistance, but we'll try it.)

There is a slight error in your calculations. (As an aside, I'm a chemistry professor and use unit conversions frequently).

We have a 280 g bag of Tetraoxy HCA-280. The directions on the front of the bag indicate that the entire 280 g bag can make 128 gallons of 800 mg/gallon oxytetracycline HCl, or 512 gallons of 200 mg/gallon oxytetracycline HCl.

We will split the difference and follow the rest of these calculations for a 400 mg/gallon concentration, as you have done.
For 400 mg/gallon:
280 g powder / 256 gallons = 1.09375 g powder/gallon (I'm with you so far)

Now, you convert grams directly to tsp. Good thought, but where did you get the density of the powder? More specifically, you seem to have used a density of 1 g/mL... but that is the density of water (at 4oC). Is that the density of the tetroxy HCA-280 powder? So, I'm at home without a precision balance. Rather than dragging the antibiotics in to work to measure mass, I measured the volume of the powder. As best I can measure, the 280 g of tetroxy HCA-280 has a volume of 1.667cups of powder. So, now we can find the density. (Density of the dry powder is 168 g / cup or 3.5 g /tsp).

So, to make the 400 mg/gallon oxytetracycline HCL solution, we need:
1.09375 g powder/gallon of water = 0.068359 g powder / cup of water = 0.020 tsp powder / cup of water.

Ok, that's fine. Now how to measure 1/50th of a teaspoon at home?

This ratio works out to a little over 1/4th teaspoon of powder per gallon of water for 400 mg/gallon concentration (actually 0.31 tsp/gallon).

I guess I'll mix some up now and see if our bird starts getting any better.

As an aside, does anyone know how I dispose of this stuff? We're on a septic, so I don't want to put it down the drain. I can pour it on the ground, but then I clearly am contributing to resistant bacteria. I can let it evaporate dry and then burn it...but that seems like a lot of effort. Thoughts?

 

[wasteaway]

Wait. If we do the math from a full bag (or the amounts listed on the back of the bag) and use a 400mg of medicine doesage rate we find that the bag (280g) will make 256 gallons (128 gallons, the rate of dosage for 800mg, times two) OR (512 gallons, the rate for 200mg doseage rate divided in half) of medicated water. That is 1.09375g of powder per gallon which is .2219 teaspoons per gallon of water. A three gallon waterer will take .666 teaspoons of powder. Again, this yeilds a 400mg per gallon doseage rate.

If you use the instructions on the back of the package that are for a metered dispenser into a water supply you find the rate of one ounce per gallon (128 oz) at a 400mg dose rate would take 140g of powder mixed into one gallon. That one gallon (128 oz, one ounce per gallon) will make 128 gallons of mixture and that 140g is equal to 1.09375g per gallon of water. (140 divided by 128). The same quantity as figured by the entire bag.

I would have to say that the correct amount of Tetroxy HCA-280 to use is .111 teaspoons/gallon for the 200mg dose rate, .222 teaspoons/gallon for the 400mg dose rate, and .444 teaspoons/gallon at the 800mg dose rate.

Maybe the suggested rate on the other site should have said 1/8 of a teaspoon per gallon instead of per cup?

 

[wasteaway]

Hi wasteaway,
We're going through the exact same math this morning. (The Ag Extension suggested going ahead with antibiotics although we cannot confirm a bacterial infection. I'm skeptical because of fears of overmedication and bacterial resistance, but we'll try it.)

There is a slight error in your calculations. (As an aside, I'm a chemistry professor and use unit conversions frequently).

We have a 280 g bag of Tetraoxy HCA-280. The directions on the front of the bag indicate that the entire 280 g bag can make 128 gallons of 800 mg/gallon oxytetracycline HCl, or 512 gallons of 200 mg/gallon oxytetracycline HCl.

We will split the difference and follow the rest of these calculations for a 400 mg/gallon concentration, as you have done.
For 400 mg/gallon:
280 g powder / 256 gallons = 1.09375 g powder/gallon (I'm with you so far)

Now, you convert grams directly to tsp. Good thought, but where did you get the density of the powder? More specifically, you seem to have used a density of 1 g/mL... but that is the density of water (at 4oC). Is that the density of the tetroxy HCA-280 powder? So, I'm at home without a precision balance. Rather than dragging the antibiotics in to work to measure mass, I measured the volume of the powder. As best I can measure, the 280 g of tetroxy HCA-280 has a volume of 1.667cups of powder. So, now we can find the density. (Density of the dry powder is 168 g / cup or 3.5 g /tsp).

So, to make the 400 mg/gallon oxytetracycline HCL solution, we need:
1.09375 g powder/gallon of water = 0.068359 g powder / cup of water = 0.020 tsp powder / cup of water.

Ok, that's fine. Now how to measure 1/50th of a teaspoon at home?

This ratio works out to a little over 1/4th teaspoon of powder per gallon of water for 400 mg/gallon concentration (actually 0.31 tsp/gallon).

I guess I'll mix some up now and see if our bird starts getting any better.

As an aside, does anyone know how I dispose of this stuff? We're on a septic, so I don't want to put it down the drain. I can pour it on the ground, but then I clearly am contributing to resistant bacteria. I can let it evaporate dry and then burn it...but that seems like a lot of effort. Thoughts?

Hi ck,

Thanks for the efforts here. To answer your question of where did I get the density of the powder I will reveal my limits on this subject very quickly. All I did was find a conversion chart online that converted grams to teaspoons (US). By the sounds of things the unit of measure (teaspoons) is only accurate with the density of the material being measured factored in. This makes complete sense to me.

As far as calculating the proper dose in anything less than gallons I did not find a need for that.

Disposal? Good question. In your septic certainly means in the water supply. Same for those on sewer. This is a big issue we all face and will become a major source of controversy in the near future, especially with the drug companies being so powerful (rich).

Oh wait! I just remembered where the calculation of 1g/ml came from! Read the back of the bag. If you mix the entire bag and use that mixture (in the liquid form) in a metered dispenser the instruction call for 1g/ml per gallon.

 

[ck-newbe]

I'm so glad we can have this conversation. Most people just want the answer. I think there is enough error in our measurements that what you originally posted gets us into an acceptable ballpark. Hopefully this thread helps others.

Best of luck with your birds

 

[wasteaway]

Well I am more concerned about using a safe and correct dosage than I am about having the right answer. And since I don't believe EVERYTHING I read on the internet I like to find confirmation of an answer before I put anyone (and yes, even birds) at risk. Too often I see several people post the same answer because they are all quoting the same listing. If the original posting is incorrect, many people can be mislead.

Thanks for your response here. It gives me peace of mind that I am on the right track with this medication.

 

[dawg53]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/583041/tetroxy-hca-280 Post #2.

 

[nancypo]

Thanks, I was just trying to figure that out too!