How to caponize a rooster Warning Graphic pics

[PoultryPedia]

Quote:
Sounds like a good idea to practice during butchering before trying it on live chickens.
If you use a topical analgesic, be sure it is not one with "-caine" in the name (such as Novocaine). Those are VERY TOXIC to chickens.

 

[Holly31]

Before I used the Orajel on the skin, (4%) I visited this veterinarian's site about birds. It is worth a look.

http://www.thebirdclinic.com/L13_Pain_and_Analdesia.htm (Copy and paste)

If there was something else available I'd be happy to use it. I didn't happen to notice any particular side effects with it. Sometimes the "cains" are mixed with other drugs to absorb better into the bloodstream and last longer, which you don't want on a quick procedure like this. You certainly want to use a teeny amount as birds are more suseptible to the 'cains than dogs or cats. Toxic effects can include cardiac arrest, depression, seizures, and pupils varying in size.

It might be best at this juncture to apply a thin, thin layer of Orajel/Benzocaine only to the area where you will make an incision, followed by carprofen orally. I don't have a dosage for that. I am NOT giving veterinary advice, just my personal opinion based on the information I've found.

BTW, my birds showed zero side effects post procedure, except the napping under the lamp. Practising on freshly dispatched cocks would probably be best....

 

[ISSOLA]

Quote:
I like the idea of orajel on the surface of the skin, prior to incision.

BTW - how did you "immobilize" the cockerel, especially the flapping wings? I can see the one can tie the legs together would help, but the wings are a different matter.

Good point about oral sedative meds needing time to be absorped, since it has to go through crop etcetc.

What brand capon set did you use?

Thanks for your great suggestions.

Also, I am glad speckledhills mentioned no "caine" meds, since I was toying with the idea of subcutaneous lidocaine, at the incision site. Few! Saved by the forum!!!

 

[Holly31]

HI All,
I will post some pix when I figure that out. In the meantime, to hold the wings, I took my left hand with cock facing left, reached over his head and grasped them under the "shoulders" and lifted them up so they are fully extended above the body, then at the base I wrapped a length of gauze to hold them together in the up position. I had a helper who held them flat for the beginning, but later he just held them there on his own.

I think towards the end of the procedure he had gone into a "preservation" mode that birds do, and had lowered his heart rate, which is why I had to unwrap his legs, wings, and jiggle his body before he decided to wake up. Self hypnosis?

As for the kit, I got the one from Nasco, but I think the tools are pathetic Pakastani rip offs for $45. The booklet was all but useless. There is better information here. IN the book it states make your incision between the last two ribs, but in a nother place in the same book it states between rib 3 and 2 (on your way to the tail, as anatomically these are more like 12-13-14). I talked to an old timer,

he said his mom would go in behind (caudally, tail direction) rib 3. But no one says how far "south" from the backbone. I can't find much information on that; some people show quite low in front of the hip, others show in from of the point of hip (ilium), and some say just below backbone.

I woud like to find MUCH better rib spreaders, maybe with a ratchet, and I used my own nursing tools - called a Crile hemostat (Kellys would work, too), a sponge hemostat, and a # 10 scalpel blade on a # 4 handle (for those who want to buy their own). I think if I'd had a better rib spreader instrument I could have found the testicle(s) and been done with the job.

I washed my hands first, too, scrubbing with anti-bacterial soap - you can get it everywhere. Use alcohol to sanitize your instruments and the bird's skin; if you can get some betadine or chlorhex that is better for skin, but use alcohol as a final wipe.

Is best I can offer for now. I will try to get the pix of the cock sleeping and tied, and if i get some better ribbers I'll get pix of my next batch up (that is, if I can get the pix loaded).

 

[farmchick897]

Hard for me to read this post. I know we kill chickens and eat them, that's one thing.. but doing this is cruel. Is the animals not in pain because it doesn't scream out like you would if someone performed a surgery on you without the typical hospital procedures? What about the ones who didn't make it after your little surgery? I know many of you may disagree cause it's only a chicken right? I wouldn't care how tasty that meat is if the way you get it is inhumane and cruel for the animal.

 

[Sunny Side Up]

Quote:
I disagree with you because I don't think it's inhumane or cruel. I wouldn't treat any chicken, any livestock, not even any pest or predator animal in that manner. But when caponization done by someone with knowledge & experience I think the bird only feels mild discomfort -- a small cut, spreading of flexible bones, something poking between organs, a quick snip of the connective tube to the testes. I imagine the worst part for the bird is the catching up & immobilization during the procedure.

This is why I would love to find someone local who could show me how to do this. I think that would minimize the losses, which I hear typically happen when you're first learning. Once you know how to do this well I think it's like pruning a fruit tree in order to make it bear more fruit. Caponizing turns young cockerels into birds that more effectively turn their feed into flesh, which benefits their human owners.

Farmchick you're free to disagree and free to never eat a capon. But please know that many of the people who do still highly regard their chickens and are not doing this just to please their palates.

 

[BackyardAR]

As indicated by it's name, Orajel is a topical anesthetic designed for use in the oral cavity. So are the other topical caines.

In reading that article the only mention of using a topical benzocaine is in "minor wound repair". What that means is a laceration that you're going to repair, not make. Topical anesthetics do not absorb through normal, exterior skin because of the very thick layer of keratin, dead skin, etc. Those drugs are for use on mucous membranes like those that line the mouth. Using it on an open wound will get you a little relief because you are down past that thickened layer of skin, but on exposed tissue like that the caines typically burn at first before it goes numb.

Now then, I am not a chicken physiologist, but I would imagine their skin would respond the same way ours does to topical anesthesia. So Orajel and benzocaine or viscous lidocaine would be of no use in pain management during caponization. Think of this... does the doctor or nurse rub topical anesthetic on your arm when they give you a shot or start an IV? No, because it doesn't work that way.

Only injectable anesthesia is going to make a difference when you are making a incision.

As for caponization itself, I have no opinion. It has it's use. Is it cruel? Not done properly. Can you say you aren't doing it purely for culinary reasons? Why else would you want neutered roosters?

 

[Holly31]

Why caponize?

If I may jump in here, there is also a product called Solarcaine, used for ON the skin. Similar 'cains are used in tattoo parlors to help numb the skin before piercing it with needles. It does provide a brief numbing of peripheral nerve endings, but does not provide any anesthesia - only analgesia.

Anesthesia: unconsciousness, reversable, amnetic (no memory), no sensations. Isofluroane, Halothane, Sevoflurane are anesthetic gases used post a pre-anesthetic drug, often propofol or ketamine (at least in veterinary medicine, I cannot speak for humans). Must be used with vaporizor and oxygen and highly trained person(s).

Analgesic: reduction of pain by inhibiting nerve receptor functions either peripherally (limbs etc) or centrally (spinal/brain); COX inhibitors, Opioids, etc are examples. Oral, topical, IV, IM, subcutaneous, there are different routes for these type of medicines.

SO, the whole reason for this forum - thread is to educate each other on what we have found works, what is the quickest and most painless and most effective method of dealing with roosters we cannot keep. I for one am allowed up to 4 roosters on my property. That's even a lot when they're all crowing at 3:30. BUT, caponizing ALSO stops these birds from fighting and crowing, so they can be housed together. They become gentle and make quite docile pets. I would rather sell, or even give away, my hatched roos as capons and ensure they will not be used as pit bull bait or as fighting birds, as illegal as it is it occurs here, or be able to find them homes as pet birds in more surburban areas where they are no more nuisance than a dog. For me, it's more a question of owning a stallion or a gelding - you can find a lot more homes for geldings than stallions. Not all stallions should breed. Geldings make better "pets" or mounts. Same with roos. I don't kill any of my birds to eat, even my old biddies, at least not myself.

Frankly, I DO stitch my birds' derma after an incision. It aids in healing by first intention, reduces the chances for infection, bleeding, puffing, etc. I am certain the birds feel something, but animals do NOT perceive pain the way humans do - we are big sissys and they are not going to let it get them down. I am not advocating tying them to a chain and dragging them along the street by the bumper of a car, letting them fight until one bleeds to death or gets infections which are painful, slow, and lingering, often followed by isolation from the flock and death, nor do I wish to enjoy the experience of caponzing. This is a practical matter, and this forum seeks to find the best way of doing what we have to, want to, or need to do.

I breed my own replacement hens to supply quality eggs to many many people, in thus reducing my c. footprint and theirs, by not buying caged hens' eggs, having them shipped from Thailand, waste grocery store space, etc. When I incubate, some are going to be boys. I raise them with care like the pullets and then do the best we can to get them an overall normal life followed by a QUICK, if any, death. Take a moment to think about what happens to the other half of all the egg layers raised in this country (MILLIONS) - they are disposable lives, piled into boxes to die without food or water, comfort or care. IF raised, by the time they're 16 weeks they can't be eaten and are discarded like trash because they aren't large enough for American appetites. I prefer my way, the Homesteader way, and if that means a cock has to lie still for 15 seconds of discomfort, that is a lot less discomfort than I spent in college learning anatomy, pharmocology, radiology, exotic medicine, parasitology, laboratory medicine, surgical nursing, and nutrition, among other stuff.

If you can't contribute to this thread positively, with a way to "make it better", then you may want to examine other back yard chicken threads for what you are looking for - coops design, feeding, incubating, mail order, etc.

 

[jim&julie]

Here here Holly! You hit the nail right on the head. I have been following this thread for some time and you are by far the best contribution to this subject. I am frustrated by people who are set aginst caponizing and monopolize the thread with why not instead of contributing to how to.

I ordered the set of tools from Stromburgs and no way on earth you can caponize with these tools. I currently have bids on some old medical tools on Ebay and it looks like one or two of them may be the spreader I need. Also I butchered 2 roosters last night and as far as I can tell the nads are located just below the ribs and not as everybody says between the 2 and 3rd ribs, South of the ribs there is an area with no bone that seems a clear shot to the2 glands with out having to spred the ribs. You may even be able to retrieve both at the same time. I hate to think of having to turn him over and cut twice.

I have spent time and traveled to two locations to be shown how only to be told they couldnt find their tools and mine don;t work or they just couldn't remember how. I am determined to learn this and agree with Holly in that if I can not caponize them they will have to be put down anyway.

 

[jim&julie]

Here here Holly! You hit the nail right on the head. I have been following this thread for some time and you are by far the best contribution to this subject. I am frustrated by people who are set aginst caponizing and monopolize the thread with why not instead of contributing to how to.

I ordered the set of tools from Stromburgs and no way on earth you can caponize with these tools. I currently have bids on some old medical tools on Ebay and it looks like one or two of them may be the spreader I need. Also I butchered 2 roosters last night and as far as I can tell the nads are located just below the ribs and not as everybody says between the 2 and 3rd ribs, South of the ribs there is an area with no bone that seems a clear shot to the2 glands with out having to spred the ribs. You may even be able to retrieve both at the same time. I hate to think of having to turn him over and cut twice.

I have spent time and traveled to two locations to be shown how only to be told they couldnt find their tools and mine don;t work or they just couldn't remember how. I am determined to learn this and agree with Holly in that if I can not caponize them they will have to be put down anyway.