How to convert metal frame run to open-air coop?

I believe the idea is to help them differentiate between what they poop on and scratch around in, vs. what they lay in and don't disturb too much. (I've never tested the theory, since it seems way easier to just use a second material than to deal with wrecked, poopy nests.)
It doesn't make a difference. My birds lay in the nest boxes because that's where they feel safe laying. I've put a variety of materials in there and they'll still lay in there. Currently I use hemp, which is on the coop floor under the roosts. They also drag in pieces of wood or feathers from the coop floor (I use wood chips in the rest of the coop) and it does not cause any confusion.
 
Those are some industrious rats! Good to know that an apron may not be as effective as buried HC.

Although I also know from experience that putting pavers on top of the HC actually reduces the effective range of the HC by a foot, so you'd need 3-4' of HC skirt instead of 2-3'. Rats instinctually start digging at the edge of a solid object like a rock or paver, rather than at the edge of the fence they can see through. I have pet dwarf rats in a large cage with about a foot of bioactive soil for them to dig in, and if you put a flat object on the surface of the soil they will ALWAYS start a tunnel from the edge of it.

I definitely want to exclude rodents from the chicken run right from the start. When I moved into a house that already had chickens in Portland, OR, the rats were already well established throughout the yard, garage, and neighborhood because everyone had backyard chickens with unsecured feeders/runs. The rats were so comfortable coming out in broad daylight, and had such healthy, shiny coats (from a great diet of organic chicken feed and veggie scraps) that visitors always thought they were squirrels. Definitely NOT doing that again...it was so awful lol.
That sounds like a nightmare!
 
The Plan
I'd like to turn one of those crappy metal frame chicken runs into a fully predator-proof open-air coop.
Do you live where there is snow, or the possibility of snow? Anything but a solid wooden roof and frame will collapse under the weight of any type of snow. The metal tubing for what you pictured will not support any weight.
 
The Plan
I'd like to turn one of those crappy metal frame chicken runs into a fully predator-proof open-air coop. This "Vevor" brand run seems like a promising starting point. (Link to their web store, but it is also sold on Amazon).

Please let me know your thoughts and suggestions for how to build.

View attachment 3630498

https://vevor.com/metal-chicken-coo...uck-coop-and-rabbit-run-silver-p_010173496162

Background
Next month I am moving in to a rented house with a gorgeous backyard, where the landlord has allowed us to have chickens. Yaaay! So naturally, rather than packing moving boxes like I should be, I am instead researching and dreaming of my coop. I want to build it ASAP so there's still time for fall chicks.

I've always wanted to build a Woods-style coop, but not on rented property. The standard Woods coop is also a bit overkill for my climate (Zone 7a, near Baltimore, Maryland). Our winters are mild, so it's only the summers that I'm worried about. That got me looking into Woods' "Stoddard Southern House" design, which is like a standard Woods coop but with wire mesh replacing the walls on the entire front half, and the bottom 2' of the rear sides, for extra ventilation and mite prevention in hot climates.

View attachment 3630569

THAT got me realizing that many hoop coops are actually built kind of similarly. And are a lot cheaper. But hoop coops are limited in height. My boyfriend is 6'3" and, while he will not be a primary chicken tender, I do want the coop to be tall enough for him to walk in comfortably if needed.

THAT got me looking at @Victoria-nola's (and @aart 's) modified hoop coop design, which uses extra cattle/hog panels on the sides to raise the hoop roof. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/modified-hoop-coop-design-development.1120946/

BUT, then I priced out all the cattle/hog panels, T-posts, cost to rent a truck to haul the cattle panels, time to drive to the closest Rural King (in Pennsylvania!) to save money over Tractor Supply's ridiculous prices, etc...and it was all quite expensive!

THAT made me realize that a crappy metal frame chicken coop would actually be a cheaper, faster, easier, more portable starting point. Which brings us to the present day.

Requirements
  • General
    • Open-air coop/run for 8 (+chicken math?) bantam hens. Planning on using the 10'x20' model for ample space when we're not around to let them out. Deep litter method.
    • Fully predator-proof, covered in 1/2" hardware cloth with hardware cloth skirt, secure locks.
    • Per the landlord, main predators are fox and raccoon. I know we also have snakes, possum, skunk, hawks, etc. I definitely want to keep out rats and mice, and I assume weasels are always a possibility even if I've never seen them. I don't expect stray dogs, coyote, or anything larger.
    • Roosts towards the back (west or north) which will be more sheltered. Front (east or south) will be more open.
  • Cover
    • Plastic roofing panels in semi-opaque and opaque, so there is a range of shade levels.
    • Might leave one portion of roof uncovered and open to rain, and put a compost pile underneath that spot. Or should I keep everything as dry as the site allows?
    • Run mainly open to the south and east. Northeast preferably also open enough to keep chickens visible from the house.
    • Run closed/mostly closed to the west, the side that borders the neighbor's property.
    • Closing to the north may or may not be necessary, depending on proximity to the shed. The house and shed should block major wind, I think.
  • Added coop (or faux coop??)
    • IMPORTANT: Need to add a structure that looks like a more traditional (enclosed) coop. Zoning requires a 15' setback for coops, but the run will be set closer to the fence than that. So there will be "the run" and there will be a separate "coop" structure, either inside of the run or sticking off of it, depending on what it takes to keep it 15' away from fence line.
    • Coop to have 2-3 communal nest boxes and an external egg collection door, accessible from near the sidewalk.
    • While intention is for chickens to sleep out in sheltered portion of run, coop could have some roosts (still with good ventilation even though more covered) in case anyone decides to sleep there instead.
    • The coop could possibly be built to accommodate a silky, like with some extra-low roost space that is still sheltered and dry. It would be nice to have the option of getting a silky of it can handle this type of setup. Otherwise I'll stick with flying bantams.

The Site
A 40'x30' corner of the yard. (The fence is 40') It's shaded by a huge willow tree and sandwiched between a workshop/garage to the south (left) and a shed to the north (right). The shed has electrical hookups and a water spigot right outside, so the coop/run will be placed close by.

View attachment 3630513
View attachment 3630514

I will probably end up fencing the whole 40x30 corner with electric poultry netting, and make that the chicken yard. So I want to keep a few feet of open space around the run in each direction.

I'm leaning towards an east-west orientation for the run, so it gets most of the willow's shade in summer, and so the run door can be right off of the sidewalk to the east. (Note, I'll try to get exact measurements and make a sketch of the plan tomorrow). The coop could be placed on the north side, out of the hot summer sun, with the egg access door reachable from the sidewalk to the north. That would put it in compliance with the 15' setback, regardless of whether it's inside or outside the run.

The other option is a north-south orientation, parallel to the fence, sandwiched between willow and fence. The coop would have to stick out the east side of the run for the setback. Im leaning away from that option.

Construction (How the heck should I do this??)
Trying to keep the build cheap, so only using lumber where necessary. Note, I'm assuming the east-west orientation for the run.

Attach hardware cloth* to entire frame with metal zipties, metal conduit strapping, and plastic UV-rated zipties.

*Will 4' hardware cloth be tall enough, or should I use 5'? The run walls are 44" high, so 48" sounds like a tight fit on the rounded frame.

Door might need a bit of thin wood to close gaps.

Not exactly sure how to do the roof hardware cloth. Run along the 20' length...is it enough to overlap the sheets and stitch together with wire and zipties, or should I add a thin strip of wood?

I suppose some thin strips of wood will be necessary anyways, for screwing in the corrugated roofing panels?

Can the cheapo metal tubing handle the weight of hardware cloth + several plastic roofing panels? Will it need extra bracing? If so, how?

The short end of the run, with no door, to be covered up with plywood. Do I cut it to fit inside of the tubing frame and attach with metal conduit straps? How much (if any) ventilation to leave open along the top of that short wall?

I'm thinking the back third of the run can be fully covered down the walls as well. Should I keep a couple feet of wall open along the bottom as in the Woods Stoddard house, or close it all the way down to the ground? Leaning towards fully closed, on south and north sides, so I can put a brooder/hospital cage down there and not worry about wind.

I'm not going to cut the 8' corrugated panels, so there will presumably be1-2' of overhang in the back.

The middle third, I would probably cover with roofing panels on the entire roof but none of the walls. Overlapping the back panel due to slope.

The front third, I could use the included crappy tarp. But more likely, I'll use panels here as well, overlapping the middle ones and with a 1-2' overhang in the front. I'm thinking I'll put roof panels over the top and north of the roof arch and leave the south side of the arch uncovered to let some rain into the run. My theory is that it would help with compost (I'd like to toss our chicken-safe food waste into that part of the run). I'm pretty sure the slope will carry excess water to the west, away from the door. But I could be totally wrong and maybe it's best to keep it all out of the rain as much as possible. I haven't seen the yard in the rain yet.

Out of all those roofing panels, I'm not sure which should be opaque and which should be semi-opaque or even transparent. I want to let a lot of light in but I don't want to create a greenhouse.

I'm envisioning the coop/nestbox being the same length as the front third of the run, to simplify construction. The easiest thing would be to put the egg door in the wall of the run, and have the entire coop and nests inside the run (directly to the right of the door when you walk in).

Not sure how much effort I really need to put into making it be a "real" coop rather than just a standalone nestbox. I'm pretty sure nobody actually enforces or inspects the zoning stuff in our county. So if it looks coop-ish on the outside it's probably fine. But if there's a good way to add roosts, I will. Maybe the chickens will appreciate having a more covered sleeping option, especially in the winter. If there's a particular minimalist coop design that would fit well, please let me know. (~6' across; ~3'(?) deep; back wall and top of egg access door ~44" and nests placed accordingly; nests either inside that space with horizontal egg door, or in the classic sticky-outy nestbox with angled lid.

Trying to minimize mites and such, so everything to be as plain and smooth as possible, without a lot of nooks and crannies. Plan to use some type of ventilated plastic or wire baskets for nests, as recommended in the Stoddard plan.

Roosts in the run to be held up by sawhorses etc, rather than attached to the run walls per the Stoddard plan.

Locks to be completely replaced by hasps with carabiners or whatever else is most secure.

YOUR ADVICE!
Your thoughts, tips, feedback, critiques are all appreciated. I'll update this thread with more details or adjustments as things develop.

Thanks BYC peeps! I'm so thrilled to be getting back into chickens again!!!
You don't state what predators you have to deal with. We have Dogs, Opposums, Snakes, Bobcats, Foxes, Raccoons, Hawks, Owls and Eagles. Hog panels and hardware cloth seem rather expensive. We used the large opening chicken wire for the top to keep birds and oppossums out. Used standard welded wire fence roll for sides, then buried cement blocks (thin 1/2 size) at bottom with chick wire around bottom on inside. That keeps any little chicks in and keeps dogs from digging under. We have 36 hens and 1 very docile rooster. We used a small carport as the inside frame, built a tight fence around it. That is their internal secure house. We are in So. Georgia so don't have cold or snow as much of a problem, heat is big problem for us, so the carport allows us to leave more open air while still keeping them secure.
 
That sounds like a nightmare!
Interesting reading your descriptions. Never had to deal with rats as a problem with our chickens and glad of it. But then again we have 8 permanent cats and 2 ferals on contant patrol of our yard. One of them "Oscar" patrols the outside of their fence daily. That may be why we only have problems with predators who are as bigg or bigger than the cats.
 
Here are some pictures.
What a great setup, thanks for sharing! I'd be very happy to have such a setup. Those 83% light panels really do keep things nice and bright, I'll have to keep that in mind.

That sounds like a nightmare!

Interesting reading your descriptions. Never had to deal with rats as a problem with our chickens and glad of it. But then again we have 8 permanent cats and 2 ferals on contant patrol of our yard. One of them "Oscar" patrols the outside of their fence daily. That may be why we only have problems with predators who are as bigg or bigger than the cats.
Indeed, those rats were a total nightmare. I love rats as pets or out in the wild...but they poop and pee SO MUCH. So when they're infesting a human environment where the poop doesn't have anywhere to go, it gets absolutely disgusting and disease-inducing really quickly. When we evicted them from the garage and cleaned out all the damage they'd done there, just their poops alone filled SEVERAL 30-gallon storage tubs.

Unfortunately we made the rookie mistake of not ensuring that the rats were either all eliminated or had nowhere else on the property to move to...so they ended up moving into the basement of the 120-year-old house. Trapping them all was a whole 'nother ordeal, but we did eventually catch all of them and fix up the property so that new ones wouldn't move in.
 
Run Update: I actually ended up getting a larger budget approval from my partner, so I'm going with kennel panels! :wee

1125406_A1

(Note: ignore all the extra accessories in the stock photo for the roof kit above.)

I bought two 5x10 Tractor Supply Retriever kennels and two 10x10 roof kits, which will combine into a covered 10x20 run. The included covers should do just fine for at least a few months, so I can put off building proper roofing with polycarbonate panels for now. And the panels are 6' tall with roof peak ~8', so it won't need a base to raise it up to the height I want. (TBH, not needing additional wood and hardware for framing and reinforcing the cheapo frame, makes the price difference a lot smaller.)

Outstanding tasks now are to cover the whole thing in hardware cloth, fix the gaps on the 2 doors, and cover some portion of the walls on 3 sides.

Coop Update
The county zoning office confirmed that it's just the coop that needs a 15' setback, so I will be moving forward with the plan to make a "coop lite(TM)" to satisfy any theoretical zoning officers. I basically just want it to be an optional, sheltered roosting area with deep bedding, raised up a couple feet so it has a wood floor. It'll be inside the fully secure run, so it can be kept open. I might not even do nestboxes inside the playhouse, since it seems like maybe more trouble than it's worth. I've used a standalone sheltered nestbox in the past, and the chickens loved it.

Following @NatJ's great idea, I am leaning towards a playhouse coop.
You could also consider child's playhouses for the same purpose (again, look for one that is used or on sale.)

This ~$200 Outsunny one looks promising IMO. I might make a separate thread to get build advice.

https://www.aosom.com/item/outsunny...-cottage-w-door-bench-blackboard~345-022.html
JqVb6d17ed332698a.jpg.webp
 
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Run Update: I actually ended up getting a larger budget approval from my partner, so I'm going with kennel panels!
I think that is a definite improvement. For one thing, it's probably sturdier. And depending on how you attach other things to the panels, they might be fairly easy to take apart and move at a later date (when you quit renting that particular house.)
 
I think that is a definite improvement. For one thing, it's probably sturdier. And depending on how you attach other things to the panels, they might be fairly easy to take apart and move at a later date (when you quit renting that particular house.)
Yes, I'm planning on hardware-cloth-ing each panel individually so we can move them as needed. And using a separate piece for those removable panels in case we someday want to attach a coop. All gaps between panels will be covered as well of course. I want zero gaps because black snakes are a major predator concern here. They do occasionally kill and (try to) eat bantams.
 
Using J-clips on hardware cloth is such a good idea that it almost seems obvious in hindsight. Thanks!

And your setup is also very clever, turning 2 10x20s into a 30x20. Good to know that yours seems to be handling extra weight with no issues.

I do plan on wrapping the whole thing (anything not covered by plywood) in hardware cloth. The kit's crappy chicken wire would still be put to good use stapled onto the fence in the rest of the yard, to keep chickens and my elderly small dog in.
What do J-clips look like?
 

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